[dianakroshXX]

Religion is OK but don't force it on me, This is the cry from the anti religious left. I never understood this statement living in America all my life. I never met anybody practicing a religion against their will.

The fact is, darwinism is "FORCED" on us everyday in public school as it was when I grew up. It was never explained as a theroy. We never had the option of creation. I still see the evolution poster on the wall of a ape turning into man over the years.

So tell me, how were you "FORCED" to believe a power greater then yourself?

[RjkVwPcV]

Humber is even embarrassed by this person.

[VemyhemiHef]

Humber is even embarrassed by this person.

I dunno. There is merit to the underlying complaint as a consequence of bad pedagogy. In Teaching to Transgress, bell hooks explicitly states that education in America is more often than not forced on the learner: pedagogy in the service of learning obedience, rather than in hooks' conception, the ideal of teaching as a form of achieving freedom. In The Clouds, this type of pedagogue is given a good-guy's role in opposition to Socrates (Nussman's conception of this is that Aristophanes is implicitly supporting the conservative pedagogy--but I disagree; Aristophanes was as innovative as Socrates and I think the play is using a Colbert-esque device of obfuscating ideology). In any event, the problem is the educational system is so broke that teachers teach as if it were orthodoxy (i.e. with a cleric's boredom), rather than challenging students to reach outside the textbooks, to learn the arguments for themselves, to truly understand why evolution (for example) has a certain truth-value and its so-called countertheories...don't.

[yQvpyNt3]

Religion is OK but don't force it on me, This is the cry from the anti religious left. I never understood this statement living in America all my life. I never met anybody practicing a religion against their will.

The fact is, darwinism is "FORCED" on us everyday in public school as it was when I grew up. It was never explained as a theroy. We never had the option of creation. I still see the evolution poster on the wall of a ape turning into man over the years.

So tell me, how were you "FORCED" to believe a power greater then yourself?

I don't know about you, but when we talked about it in school it was always referred to by "Darwin's THEORY of Evolution" maybe that's the clue.

[shenacatro]

I don't know about you, but when we talked about it in school it was always referred to by "Darwin's THEORY of Evolution" maybe that's the clue.

YES, that is all well and good, but the OP is specifically saying that the theroy was forced on him. That is a horse of a different color from your high-falutin' "theory".

[crestorinfo]

Religion is OK but don't force it on me, This is the cry from the anti religious left.

I think it's also the cry from all those people in other countries when Christian missionaries show up to convert them. Also, me on Saturday morning when the Jesuses ring the bell at 8 am.

So tell me, how were you "FORCED" to believe a power greater then yourself? May Xenu forgive you.

[GECEDEANY]

I think it's also the cry from all those people in other countries when Christian missionaries show up to convert them. Also, me on Saturday morning when the Jesuses ring the bell at 8 am.

They would be way more successful if they showed up around noonish with some hoagies.

[Efonukmp]

Now that's a religion I can believe in!

[forumsfavoriteall]

Religion is OK but don't force it on me, This is the cry from the anti religious left. I never understood this statement living in America all my life. I never met anybody practicing a religion against their will.

The fact is, darwinism is "FORCED" on us everyday in public school as it was when I grew up. It was never explained as a theroy. We never had the option of creation. I still see the evolution poster on the wall of a ape turning into man over the years.

So tell me, how were you "FORCED" to believe a power greater then yourself?

I met people all the time that were forced into practicing. I woke up at 7:30 am every sunday for 7 years, before it switched to 7 pm on sundays. I never once wanted to go, nor did I have a choice. Much of it was idiotic (talking about whether pets go to heaven or the layers of purgatory, ie untestable theoretical crap that is opinon and strictly speculation.)

circumcision, baptism, first communion, confirmation were not choices for me. The religious also love to use the fear factor (telling parents their babies won't make it to heaven if they aren't baptised). Lets not forget that they start them out young on religion before the children have the knowledge to challenge what their taught (brainwashing).

I know one family whose deceased baby wasn't buried with the rest of the family because it wasn't baptised and couldn't be placed in consecrated ground. Talk about rubbing salt into wounds and theoretical bs.

You can be "forced" in other ways. Having to convert before marriage, religious presecution - it still happens.

As far as Evolution. Its a fact and theory and a very reliable model. Once we can provide testable data for talking fire & snakes, dragons, sacrificial offerings to heal etc then we should teach it.

[strmini]

Ha-ha ZING!

But the Vatican DID do away with Baby Limbo. (How low can you go? I have a silly made up song that plays in my head everytime I hear the words "Baby Limbo". And there it goes.)

Your experiences as a child sound just like mine. Years and years and years worth. That's why despite not being a practicing Chrustian, I am actually fairly well-versed in catholic dogma, theology, tradition, etc. (UNLIKE the OP in matters of science, I suspect). Well, some people say papists aren't true Chrustians, but I think that's splitting hairs.

I detested all that stuff and yup, it was compulsory for me too.

[XinordiX]

The fairy tales we were taught in the name of religion (me too, enyo and sometimesilie) were to blame for my total lack of belief in anything spiritual
in my young adulthood. Even now. the damage that kind of "education" inflicts is apparent in my friends and family members who blame "god" for all their bad luck and misfortunes and believe that lighting a candle, not changing behavior, will make a difference. This nonsense is not synonymous with a belief in a higher power. I just feel sad that so many people have little or no spiritual life as adults because they were subjected to this kind of junk religion as children.

[Nakforappealp]

The fact is, darwinism is "FORCED" on us everyday in public school as it was when I grew up. It was never explained as a theroy. We never had the option of creation. I still see the evolution poster on the wall of a ape turning into man over the years.

lol. Just...lol.

Is that why it's called "Darwin's THEORY of Evolution"? You didn't get the hint from the title? I predict much herp derp from this one.

[HawksBurnDown]

YES, that is all well and good, but the OP is specifically saying that the theroy was forced on him. That is a horse of a different color from your high-falutin' "theory".

...and if you're sent to Catholic school, then Catholicism is FORCED on you. The fact is, as a child you have no rights.

[Phoneemer]

I like this first hand account of a missionary trying to convert natives in Brazil.

They pretty much laugh at the idea of Jesus as a personal savior when they realize the missionary is basing all he knows about Jesus on 2000 year hearsay. They ask that he stop reading the bible to the people of the tribe, as it is too violent and sets bad examples. They also reject the idea that they are lost and need saved. They ask why he is trying to convince them that they are not happy and need Jesus, when they live normal ways of life according to their customs.

After some reflection the missionary abandons his religion and lives with the tribe.



Note to missionaries:

Start with children that can't think for themselves, as you don't always get too far with adults.

[actifadepette]

...and if you're sent to Catholic school, then Catholicism is FORCED on you. The fact is, as a child you have no rights.

didn't you get the HINT.... Duh.... catholic school. One would willing pay for that education.

[VtLe67WR]

talking to people about religion is not FORCING. you can pick up your bed and walk.

[HedgeYourBets]

"talking to people about EVOLUTION is not FORCING. you can pick up your bed and walk"

Is that what you meant? Now if parents sent their kids to evolution school and stated speculation as fact while denying reality, you might have a point.
I'm still waiting to see scientists boil someone alive in tar for denying global warming.

[UpperMan]

"talking to people about EVOLUTION is not FORCING. you can pick up your bed and walk"

Is that what you meant? Now if parents sent their kids to evolution school and stated speculation as fact while denying reality, you might have a point.
I'm still waiting to see scientists boil someone alive in tar for denying global warming.

go back re-read1.... In public school it was taught as fact. I didnt find out it was BS for many years.

[Qauunet]

go back re-read1.... In public school it was taught as fact. I didnt find out it was BS for many years.

It is a fact. Just like gravity. The theory is how exactly it works. Just like gravity.

Scientific theory is a bit different than the theories theologians get degrees in.

"As used in science, a theory is an explanation or model based on observation, experimentation, and reasoning, especially one that has been tested and confirmed as a general principle helping to explain and predict natural phenomena.

Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts. A clear distinction needs to be made between facts (things which can be observed and/or measured) and theories (explanations which correlate and interpret the facts.

A fact is something that is supported by unmistakeable evidence. For example, the Grand Canyon cuts through layers of different kinds of rock, such as the Coconino sandstone, Hermit shale, and Redwall limestone. These rock layers often contain fossils that are found only in certain layers. Those are the facts.

It is a fact is that fossil skulls have been found that are intermediate in appearance between humans and modern apes. It is a fact that fossils have been found that are clearly intermediate in appearance between dinosaurs and birds.

Facts may be interpreted in different ways by different individuals, but that doesn't change the facts themselves."


"In the sciences, a scientific theory (also called an empirical theory) comprises a collection of concepts, including abstractions of observable phenomena expressed as quantifiable properties, together with rules (called scientific laws) that express relationships between observations of such concepts. A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena.
A scientific theory is a type of deductive theory, in that its content (i.e. empirical data) could be expressed within some formal system of logic whose elementary rules (i.e. scientific laws) are taken as axioms. In a deductive theory, any sentence which is a logical consequence of one or more of the axioms is also a sentence of that theory.
In the humanities, one finds theories whose subject matter does not (only) concern empirical data, but rather ideas. Such theories are in the realm of philosophical theories as contrasted with scientific theories. A philosophical theory is not necessarily scientifically testable through experiment."

[curcercanty]

Stop forcing your gravity on me.