[Ubgvuncd]

Not sure if this in the right section, but oh well.

I'd like to get some opinions on how people here feel about dog aggression in the APBT.

Some people love it and accept it as part of the dog, others hate it and think it should be bred out and that's a disgusting trait.

So, give me your opinion.

[VanDerSmok]

well i wouldn"t want a pointer that couldn"t point and i wouldn"t want a ratting dog that was afraid of rats , same goes for a sporting dog . but do i need a full-blown sporting dog , that is a different matter !!

[Ubgvuncd]

I'll go ahead and post what I think:

I respect DA as part of the breed, and part of what drives them.

The dog I have now isn't DA yet, but I've had one that was and I loved the demeanor he had when I walked him around other dogs. The "my shit doesn't stink" walk. So, to an extent, I enjoy the drive that APBT's have that makes them better than other dogs. (According to others, apparently this means that I enjoy dog fighting. )

[Trissinas]

I definitely don't "love" it, and would greatly prefer to own dogs that are very dog social (which all 3 of mine are), but I do accept that it can be a breed trait. Do I think it should be specifically bred out? No, not really, because that could lead to a bunch of other problems with an otherwise hearty breed. Should it be bred FOR? No, not IMO.

[Ubgvuncd]

I definitely don't "love" it, and would greatly prefer to own dogs that are very dog social (which all 3 of mine are), but I do accept that it can be a breed trait. Do I think it should be specifically bred out? No, not really, because that could lead to a bunch of other problems with an otherwise hearty breed. Should it be bred FOR? No, not IMO.

Yeah.

Do you see in this other thread where they said I'm a dog fighter because I respect that as their history and I enjoy what I call "the DA ego"? It's making me LOL.

[Aztegjpl]

I agree with Kady's post.

Personally..i find it ANNOYING as hell. She embarssaes the fk outta me and tries to go thru my truck window if she sees another dog. She only gets along with about 3 dogs. I am aware that it is a trait that this breed can have. I would prefer my dog NOT to be dA. i dont LOVE the 'demeanor when i walk around other dogs'. Havent a CLUE what you're saying about 'my shit dont stink walk'. when my dog is in close distance to another dog..she doesnt WALK..she goes nuts. I personally dont find DA to be their DRIVE.

You can have a DA dog that doesnt have drive to do anything else. seen it numerous times.

[Ubgvuncd]

Of course.

No, he was trained really well and he didn't go bonkers, but he walked really high with his head and tail up and idk...it's hard to explain. I loved that he did that. It made me proud to own a dog who was so proud of himself.

[Aztegjpl]

thats called being dominate. thats ONE way a dog can show they are dominate..

[jeockammece]

Kady I mean no disrespect when I say this. You have "unknown" dog's with Piper and Winston. And you have an Am Staff. So an Am Staff should for all intents and purposes not be DA. Does not mean all Am Staffs are never going to be DA. But gameness and DA is not a trait that breeders breed for when choosing a breeding with Am Staffs.

This is not directed to anyone specifically.

However DA and Gameness is not the same thing. A cur can appear to be DA.

I own APBT and yes I want my dog true to form. And I prove my dogs in legal outlets. All my dogs will snatch up another dog if they are in reach. Do they act crazy and screaming at every dog that walks by. No but they know what they are suppose to do. And I have to be very careful that I do not let them hurt themselves or other dogs.

So yes I believe that DA is one of the MANY THINGS that should be considered when choosing brood stock. But not the sole deciding factor. Because like I said DA does not equate gameness.

If you do not like it maybe you (general) should consider owning another breed. And stop trying to ruin the APBT.

Am Bullies and Am Staffs and ALOT of UKC stock is a way to go if you want to have a better chance to have a dog "friendly" dog.

[Ubgvuncd]

Exactly. I said this to some people in another forum and they started calling me a dog fighter, lol.

[12Dvop4I]

Dog aggression is not necessarily a desired attribute or characteristic of the APBT and was never what these dogs were bred for. The most sought after and bred for trait by those who "worked" the dogs was gameness. While most game dogs ARE dog aggressive, not all are or were.

I don't personally know it to be true, but these 5XW dogs were said to not be dog aggressive for example. The second picture is Virgil.



While these dogs were not dog aggressive, they were indeed game. So if a non dog aggressive pit bull is what you desire, there are some good ones out there that are not dog aggressive if you look around. Keep in mind, while the pit bull may not be dog aggressive, they MAY respond in kind to a dog that is aggressive toward them and will likely finish what another dog starts so be prepared for all situations. Just because a dog doesn't go looking for a fight, doesn't mean he wont fight, win, and enjoy every minute of it. The dog may not be dog aggressive but MAY still have the will and desire to dominate another dog. Now if you want ALL of this bred out ... maybe you should look for a Lab or Retriever or one of the breeds generally known to have little aggression and traits you may not be prepared to deal with.

The problem with breeding to eliminate a specific trait or characteristic is that traits, characteristics and temperament are so intertwined that you often end up with a dog that is different or only a shell of the original dog. If you can't properly socialize your dog or manage behavior and "baggage" that comes with the breed, then maybe this isn't the dog for "you". It's almost as though you're asking for a Beagle that doesn't chase rabbits but is still a rabbit dog or a German Shorthair that won't point but is still a bird dog. If you breed to eliminate one trait, what others are you going to loose? ... courage, determination, tenacity, intelligence, "heart" ... etc etc

If there are traits characteristics and temperament "issues" that you don't like or can't deal with concerning pit bulls, don't own this breed. I don't know why it is, but sometimes mostly new folks to these dogs, come on the forums with these topic questions. What's wrong with these people? Maybe they want a "sheep in wolf's clothing". They want the bad ass looks and temperament of the pit bull without any of the baggage that goes with it. It's not going to happen. Get yourselves another breed. Don't try to turn APBT's into something they aren't.

Even if you did try to breed for the mildest temperament, there is no guarantee that all the resulting pups would not be dog aggressive. Hell, for decades upon decades and centuries these dogs were bred for one trait ... gameness ... the will to dominate and never give up. If they were successful in their breedings ... ALL the offspring would have been game but that didn't happen of course. A truly game dog is rare. Even when two game dogs were bred together the only thing that could be said of the pups with certainty was that they were game bred, which did not mean they were game. Similarly there is no guarantee that two pit bulls bred, that aren't DA will consistently produce pups that's will never be DA.

All dogs are individuals and if you look hard enough, you will find the kind of dog you're looking for, but to suggest that APBT's could or should be bred to eliminate DA entirely is unrealistic.

[Ubgvuncd]

Great post.

[VanDerSmok]

good post Joe !!

[Trissinas]

Kady I mean no disrespect when I say this. You have "unknown" dog's with Piper and Winston. And you have an Am Staff. So an Am Staff should for all intents and purposes not be DA. Does not mean all Am Staffs are never going to be DA. But gameness and DA is not a trait that breeders breed for when choosing a breeding with Am Staffs.

This is not directed to anyone specifically.

However DA and Gameness is not the same thing. A cur can appear to be DA.

I own APBT and yes I want my dog true to form. And I prove my dogs in legal outlets. All my dogs will snatch up another dog if they are in reach. Do they act crazy and screaming at every dog that walks by. No but they know what they are suppose to do. And I have to be very careful that I do not let them hurt themselves or other dogs.

So yes I believe that DA is one of the MANY THINGS that should be considered when choosing brood stock. But not the sole deciding factor. Because like I said DA does not equate gameness.

If you do not like it maybe you (general) should consider owning another breed. And stop trying to ruin the APBT.

Am Bullies and Am Staffs and ALOT of UKC stock is a way to go if you want to have a better chance to have a dog "friendly" dog.

It's Wilson

I'm not sure why you felt the need to say "no disrespect" though.. you have your opinion on DA, I have mine. For me personally, I see no reason to breed FOR DA when we live in the US and dog fighting is illegal.

[VanDerSmok]

I see no reason to breed FOR DA when we live in the US and dog fighting is illegal.( q ) that could lead to the question .. why do people own bull-breeds, and why are they so popular ?

(

[12Dvop4I]

For me personally, I see no reason to breed FOR DA when we live in the US and dog fighting is illegal.

IMO DA is NOT what they were EVER bred for to begin with, even when dog matching was legal. It just happened to come along with what they WERE bred for ... gameness.

DA and gameness are two entirely different things and the two dogs in my previous post are just a couple of examples of non-DA dogs that were game.

But I digress, I agree with you DA in and of itself is not a desired trait to bred for. On the other hand, it is unrealistic to try and breed out DA entirely and expect to have the same dog. You will end up with a very weird (bull and terrier) looking Lab/Retriever (temperament wise) or very pretty bulldog but little more LOL.

---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------

I see no reason to breed FOR DA when we live in the US and dog fighting is illegal.( q ) that could lead to the question .. why do people own bull-breeds, and why are they so popular ?

(

Excellent question for another topic. My guess is each of us have our own reasons.

[Ubgvuncd]

Would you say the old champions loved what they did? that they loved to fight?

[deandrecooke]

I'm with Kady on this one. I respect the history and do NOT feel that it is a trait that should be bred out as Joe pointed out that would bring on tons of other potential problems! I however, also don't feel that it is a trait that should be bred for either. I prefer to see the APBT doing constructive sports and proving themselves in more than just a conformation ring.

[Ubgvuncd]

"http://mastiff.trainingcare.net/what...-dog-fighting/"

What do you guys think of what that says?

I'm trying to learn from what I'm asking you, lol. I'm not saying I agree with what is said on the link

---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 PM ----------

Or this one http://www.pitbulllovers.com/fightin...-fighting.html?

[12Dvop4I]

Would you say the old champions loved what they did? that they loved to fight?

They had the undeniable will to dominate their opponent.
Pit bulls were selectively bred to fight for more than a century, well maybe a couple of centuries.
If they would not fight, they are eliminated from the gene pool.
Pit bulls didn't "love" to fight ... more accurately ... they are genetically programmed for it.