LOGO
Reply to Thread New Thread
Old 11-25-2010, 01:16 PM   #1
wmirkru

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
528
Senior Member
Default shi-tzu cross puppies born
First off so their is no confusion later, this is my neighbors dog and litter. I am simply worried for them since i've come to adore the mother. Mom currently has no milk so i wasn't expecting her to have them yet. Some of the pups were born with their eyes open, but im not sure if thats bad or not. So far she's had seven but from the look of her she's not quite done.
So basically i think the pups are premature and i know they wont be getting vet care so im playing at home breeder and vet. I've worked with vets before so i know SOME things not many, and I have been looking into breeding otherwise nothing about this would have worried me. I'm not saying i know it all, hince me asking for help.
So is there anyone here who can help a little?? Right now i'm hoping things will go ok but i've had a very bad feeling somethings going to go really, really wrong....
wmirkru is offline


Old 11-25-2010, 01:58 PM   #2
Olympicdreams

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
653
Senior Member
Default
Some mommas don't produce milk till during or after labor, born with eyes open...very weird. Are you sure? Eyes aren't supposed to open till around 10 days old.

---------- Post added at 07:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 AM ----------

when I say they don't "produce" milk until labor, I mean that you may have trouble getting it to express by hand prior to this, especially if she's a first timer.

---------- Post added at 07:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 AM ----------

61 days is the average gestation period in dogs, so if the dog has been pregnant for two months, then she's on time, and no need to worry about prematurity.
Olympicdreams is offline


Old 11-25-2010, 02:19 PM   #3
lapyignipinge

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
576
Senior Member
Default
First off so their is no confusion later, this is my neighbors dog and litter. I am simply worried for them since i've come to adore the mother. Mom currently has no milk so i wasn't expecting her to have them yet. Some of the pups were born with their eyes open, but im not sure if thats bad or not. So far she's had seven but from the look of her she's not quite done.
So basically i think the pups are premature and i know they wont be getting vet care so im playing at home breeder and vet. I've worked with vets before so i know SOME things not many, and I have been looking into breeding otherwise nothing about this would have worried me. I'm not saying i know it all, hince me asking for help.
So is there anyone here who can help a little?? Right now i'm hoping things will go ok but i've had a very bad feeling somethings going to go really, really wrong....
Puppies should be born with eyes and ears closed tight.If the eyes are open,I would watch them for eye infection and keep the eyes moist.Use something like optive drops if the eyes dry.
Mom not lactating may or may not be an issue.Some dams have milk down prior to delivery some dont.My suggestion is get formula,a french catheter on hand and some bottles,and do what you gotta do.Esspecially if you suspect premature birth or small for gestational age pups.
All I can say,on the 'bad feeling'' is you need to go with your gut instinct. Instincts are usually correct.That comes from personal experiance not just heresay.
Best of luck with the litter assist.Keep us posted.
lapyignipinge is offline


Old 11-25-2010, 02:24 PM   #4
BitStillrhile

Join Date
Nov 2005
Posts
440
Senior Member
Default
I have no experience with breeding but could you call your vet and just explain the situation? Maybe he can at least tell you what can be done even if your friend won't take them to the vet.
Good Luck!
BitStillrhile is offline


Old 11-25-2010, 09:08 PM   #5
wmirkru

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
528
Senior Member
Default
Quick update before I get back to work.
There are seven puppies three black with tan and white markings, two white, and two tan and white. The mother isnt a first timer, shes had way to many litters granted at a different home. She left them a minute ago to eat and i took the chance to check the puppies for any obvious problems, outside everyone looks fine. The puppy whose eyes were open have since started to close so hopfully she will be ok. One puppy's unbilical cord cut a little close but he is doing good too.
Her milk seems to have dropped now, everyone is content. So now im worried about what feels like one puppy still inside her, she is showing no signs of labor and i could be wrong, but if im right thats a definant worry. Its Thanksgiving so the vets office might not be open, ill call and see tho.
Worst part is they just told me 'We're selling them for a hundered each.' Wth?!?!? theses dogs are mutts your not selling them with vacc., altered, nothing. So the excuse then is 'well if people pay for them then the'll take better care of them'..... I'm gonna offer to take the entire litter and find homes for them, not free but the cost will help to pay for their first vacc. and getting them fixed so some idiot wont try to breed one.
I'll try to get some pics up too.
wmirkru is offline


Old 11-25-2010, 09:21 PM   #6
plogypeskelry

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
355
Senior Member
Default
Did she pass all the placentas? That "stuck puppy" you feel may be a retained placenta, either can make the dam very sick if left to fester.
Tomorrow (hopefully the vet will be open) I would call and ask them about giving her a shot of oxytocin. I THINK it can be given as late as 24 hours after the first puppy if born, but don't quote me on that.
Or it could just be her uterus.....can't be sure until she is vetted and probably have an ultrasound done.
plogypeskelry is offline


Old 11-25-2010, 10:42 PM   #7
wmirkru

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
528
Senior Member
Default
Im not sure if she passed all the placentas as I didnt supervise the birth. The dog is outside all the time and she didn't make enough noise to wake me up. Vet is out of the equasion unless i pay for everything they'll need...sigh...i have no money to do that.
Going to find the camera now...

---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 PM ----------

Hmmmm.... the pics wont load
wmirkru is offline


Old 11-26-2010, 04:19 AM   #8
plogypeskelry

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
355
Senior Member
Default
Im not sure if she passed all the placentas as I didnt supervise the birth. The dog is outside all the time and she didn't make enough noise to wake me up. Vet is out of the equasion unless i pay for everything they'll need...sigh...i have no money to do that.
Going to find the camera now...

---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 PM ----------

Hmmmm.... the pics wont load

Bold emphasis mine.
I hate to hear that. I really hope she doesn't have a retained placenta or a puppy in there. I had a friend that lost her female Doberman 6 weeks after whelping a litter because of a uterine infection caused by a retained placenta.
Not wanting or trying to scare you, but it can happen.
plogypeskelry is offline


Old 11-26-2010, 05:29 AM   #9
MatueHarton

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
546
Senior Member
Default
Poor mom and pups. Is there any way you can talk them into taking her to the vet to get a check up??
MatueHarton is offline


Old 11-26-2010, 06:55 PM   #10
wmirkru

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
528
Senior Member
Default
Two pups are taking a turn for the worse, one is starting to respond to my efforts to help her the other mite not make it. Im keeping a very close eye on the rest of the pups and ive separated those two from mom.
Fuck. i hate my bad feelings

---------- Post added at 12:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------

just lost the white pup....
wmirkru is offline


Old 11-26-2010, 06:56 PM   #11
Olympicdreams

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
653
Senior Member
Default
What do you mean they've "taken a turn for the worse?" What do you mean you've "seperated them from mom"?
Are these your neighbor's puppies or yours? The neighbor doesn't mind you always over in her yard, and taking her pups?

Please explain what's wrong with the pups, and what exactly you are doing with them by seperating them (feeding, etc). I don't know how much you know, so I don't know where to start with helping you.
Olympicdreams is offline


Old 11-26-2010, 07:08 PM   #12
wmirkru

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
528
Senior Member
Default
They have asked for my help that is why i am trying.
i know a little of breeding whelping trying to save the pups, this here is not a yard this is an accident litter off a bitch who should have been spayed long ago.
when i say they took a turn for the worse i meant that theyd gone cold their breathing was labored and they were not moving at alling the saved one lost the other. by separate i took them away from her for the time being and im returning the surviving pup now
(sorry i only skimmed your post im in a rush right now)
wmirkru is offline


Old 11-27-2010, 06:01 AM   #13
MatueHarton

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
546
Senior Member
Default
Sorry but she needs to take those pups and mom to a vet. That is pure BS if they are dying and she is not going to find out what the hell is causing them to die. Any way you can get mom and pups to the vet??
MatueHarton is offline


Old 11-27-2010, 08:53 AM   #14
drislerfottor

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
516
Senior Member
Default
cull the whole litter and be done with it
drislerfottor is offline


Old 11-27-2010, 12:23 PM   #15
xtc2d6u8

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
521
Senior Member
Default
if shes letting you do this much with her damn dog, spay her bitch and cull the litter
xtc2d6u8 is offline


Old 11-27-2010, 06:37 PM   #16
engacenus

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
494
Senior Member
Default
I have to agree, they need to see a vet. I don't know your laws but she could certainly be charged with neglect, there is something obviously wrong and if momma has a retained pup or placenta that isn't coming out, she will die. Really, something rotting and festering inside of her is going to cause a major infection.
engacenus is offline


Old 11-27-2010, 06:51 PM   #17
Olympicdreams

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
653
Senior Member
Default
Just take them to AC or a shelter or something. Even if they get put down, it's better than a slow death of exposure and neglect.

If you feel you can take this on yourself, then take mom and all pups to the vet, and then go from there.
Olympicdreams is offline


Old 11-27-2010, 07:09 PM   #18
Shemker394

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
416
Senior Member
Default
I know this sounds heartless, but let the mom and pups die. Better that than these idiots letting her have more litters and those pups dying or being bred to produce some stupid designer breed mutts.
Shemker394 is offline


Old 11-27-2010, 07:50 PM   #19
Olympicdreams

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
653
Senior Member
Default
If you save these puppies for her, then she'll only sell them and do it again. Insist she give them all (including mom) to you free of charge, and then do whatever you want with them. If she will not give them to you, either call AC on her and risk retaliation, or mind your own business and let them all die, or not die, and let the cycle continue.

---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------

Those are pretty much your only options.

---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 PM ----------

Option 1: Save pups and dam but leave them in current owner's custody.

Pros: Puppies and dam may survive.

Cons: Dam will likely be bred again, and you'll have to do it again, and pups will be sold, and also bred.

Option 2: Acquire custody of all dogs.

Pros: You can either save the puppies, and insure they are altered and placed in good homes, or you can euth. them, allowing other homeless puppies to be save in their place, but knowing also that they will not suffer nor breed more unwanted dogs. You can save the dam, have her altered, and ensure she has a good home.

Cons: She may just go get a new dog to breed.

Option 3: Turn her in to Animal Control.

Pros: Assuming they act, she will lose the dogs, and possibly be barred from aquiring more. The pups and dam may all be saved, altered, and have a chance at finding good homes. This would be the best option to ensure less suffering in the long run, as she will likely not be able to acquire any more pets.

Cons: All dogs may be euthed. Neighbor may attempt to retaliate in some way if she knows you turned her in.

Option 4: Mind your own business.

Pros: You will not risk pissing off your neighbor.

Cons: Puppies and dam may suffer greatly and die, or survive to be sold as breeders. Dam will likely be bred again, and you will face this another time.
Olympicdreams is offline


Old 11-27-2010, 08:21 PM   #20
wmirkru

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
528
Senior Member
Default
if shes letting you do this much with her damn dog, spay her bitch and cull the litter
Bold is mine, i was planning on doing just that to all three of their dogs. Yep three, a pittie mix and two shi-tzu mixes, all female.
Six of the puppies have passed now only one remaining and i no longer feel whatever was still inside the mom. I think it may be better this way the puppies wont suffer. I can do nothing with the dogs, our HS cant take them as their owners are known, they would just be returned with a small fine. This is the last straw though, all their dogs are getting spayed. I can get them spayed cheap by calling a few favors from the HS(sometimes it pays to voluteer lol).
The veiw here on pets is that they are... well its hard to explain, to put it simply im one of the few people here who actually gives my dogs vet care. I'm trying to change some things here like for instance the fact that if a animal is on the persons property the HS cannot remove them no matter how bad the living conditions are or what shape the animal is in. I've seen dogs in horrid condition and living in the worst places and there is nothing we can do about it simply because whoever said 'hey this is my land' most cases thats even a lie. Its so frustrating.
Apparently if this pup survives they are giving her to me as a thank you for trying to help. People... a dog is not a gift, its a responsibility, but I'd rather her with me than anyone else even if its just so i can find her a good home with the people i trust down here.
Thank you for the advice and help, i only hope the death spree is over now. I've seen enough of it.

---------- Post added at 02:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ----------

oh and gator this incident has them thorouhly shaken, they didnt expect anything to go wrong. So in light of that, they have agreed to spay them all. One victory for the day.
wmirkru is offline



Reply to Thread New Thread

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:06 AM.
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Design & Developed by Amodity.com
Copyright© Amodity