[Cinzomzm]

Would you consider an APBT to be a dangerous weapon, like a gun?

Do you have to train an APBT to be a good watchdog and protector?

Is it ok to train an APBT for protection work or is that part of what gets them in trouble?

Is there a difference between training an APBT for protection work as opposed to training one of the newer type dogs people debate about being an APBT?

[smokeberly]

Would you consider an APBT to be a dangerous weapon, like a gun?

In any situation where a dog is intentionally used to harm someone, the owner should be charged with assault with a dangerous weapon, yes.

Do you have to train an APBT to be a good watchdog and protector?

Watchdog, yes. Protector, no.

Is it ok to train an APBT for protection work or is that part of what gets them in trouble?

If you mean like police protection, those dogs have such intense training by people that fully know what they are doing - those dogs are not a danger. Now if you mean the average schmuck who buys a bite suit online to impress his friends, well, yeah, that will end up all bad.

Is there a difference between training an APBT for protection work as opposed to training one of the newer type dogs people debate about being an APBT?

From what I've seen, APBTs don't usually cut it for actual police dog work, they are usually used in SAR and drug/bomb detection, so the difference would be that you probably wouldn't train an APBT for protection work. As far as the newer dogs, do you mean the blue hippos? I don't know that they could even physically do anything necessary to be able to train them for any kind of work, although I'm sure they are very warm and cuddly in the winter.

[Elelaytet]

My personal opinion is that a bulldog should NEVER be "reprogrammed" to regard man as an opponent, EVER. He is just to good at what he does and when that "focus" is "redirected" and man ceases to be "forbidden fruit" and becomes "fair game", we create exactly what we neither need nor want and we contribute greatly to one of the reasons for the bad reputation and demise of our breed.

[Cinzomzm]

I thought I just posted this but I have no clue what happend. If you see it somewhere that is why I guess lol.

I agree with what Palamino said above. That is definately one side of the issue. I do think Pit Bulls can be and have been used as good protection dogs. I saw a video by Bob Stevens and I think he knew what he was doing. However, I would never recommend an amature try to train an APBT for protection work because of the statements above. In the right hands though it shows the diversity of the breed which is a good thing.

That brings up this question. I realize the press tends to sensationalize Pit Bull attacks; but it is said they perservere like no other. Ive often wondered if it is the same gameness that causes them to perservere against another dog in the pit that causes them to perserve against a human.

[smokeberly]

[quote=Alan;23871
That brings up this question. I realize the press tends to sensationalize Pit Bull attacks; but it is said they perservere like no other. Ive often wondered if it is the same gameness that causes them to perservere against another dog in the pit that causes them to perserve against a human.[/quote]

IMO, it's 100% the cause, which is why they can be so dangerous if ill bred and/or in the wrong hands. Have you seen these things eat, lol? Everything my boy does, it's with his whole heart and soul. Nothing half-assed about him. He's in it, to win it, whether that's smelling every single blade of grass in the park or managing to get every inch of himself firmly in my lap

[Peabelilt]

a pencil can be considered a dangerous weapon in the right hands. If a Bulldog is trained to attack, I would consider it a deadly weapon.

[Cinzomzm]

a pencil can be considered a dangerous weapon in the right hands. If a Bulldog is trained to attack, I would consider it a deadly weapon.

What if it aint trained to attack? Does just the fact that it will protect you to the death qualify it as a dangerous weapon? Is a weapon only offensive or is it also defensive? What determines if that weapon is considered dangerous?

[Adeniinteme]

That brings up this question. I realize the press tends to sensationalize Pit Bull attacks; but it is said they perservere like no other. Ive often wondered if it is the same gameness that causes them to perservere against another dog in the pit that causes them to perserve against a human.

Gameness has nothing to do with HA. HA is when they either are not wired corrctly or because of human hands. A dog from game lines (well bred) should not bite a human even in the mist of a dog fight (it can happen). I am sorry that should not even be compared to each other IMO

My dogs are not trained to attack but I bet if I was in danger they would protect me.

[Peabelilt]

What if it aint trained to attack? Does just the fact that it will protect you to the death qualify it as a dangerous weapon? Is a weapon only offensive or is it also defensive? What determines if that weapon is considered dangerous?

"A deadly weapon, sometimes dangerous weapon, is a statutory definition listing certain items which can inflict mortal or great bodily harm. In addition, deadly weapon statutes often contain "catch all" provisions which describe abilities used to designate other implements as deadly weapons.
Whether an item can actually inflict such harm often does not affect the designation. For example, an unloaded gun or a gun with a trigger lock are often treated like any other firearm. "

[VYholden]

there's a "apbt looking" dog on the sheriff's department up here.. I saw them put on a take down display.. it was neat to see. I'd personally not ever have a dog that is HA... ANY of my dogs ever bites me or a person unprovoked..its a walk to the woods and a bullet to the head.

[Cinzomzm]

"A deadly weapon, sometimes dangerous weapon, is a statutory definition listing certain items which can inflict mortal or great bodily harm. In addition, deadly weapon statutes often contain "catch all" provisions which describe abilities used to designate other implements as deadly weapons.
Whether an item can actually inflict such harm often does not affect the designation. For example, an unloaded gun or a gun with a trigger lock are often treated like any other firearm. "

Thank You Mr Wicopedia!

[Cinzomzm]

there's a "apbt looking" dog on the sheriff's department up here.. I saw them put on a take down display.. it was neat to see. I'd personally not ever have a dog that is HA... ANY of my dogs ever bites me or a person unprovoked..its a walk to the woods and a bullet to the head.

I agree with you about not having a HA dog and the walk to the woods; but just for clarification, you dont think a dog has to be HA to do that kind of work do you?

[VYholden]

There has to be some hint of HA... I mean they use a guy dressed in a bite suit.. his job is aggitator (sp?) he teases the dog.. swats at him and when the dog barks and what not he recieves praise from the handler.. so I would believe they have to have some sort of HA brought on by the training.

I agree with you about not having a HA dog and the walk to the woods; but just for clarification, you dont think a dog has to be HA to do that kind of work do you?

[Cinzomzm]

Hmmmm, well I never thought of it that way. I was picturing these dogs that go home to children after a day on the police force and get along just fine. Ive seen some do it personaly. I thought it was about training and not HA. However, I must say you have me thinking. Im kinda on the fence now and I need to think about that a little more. Id be interested to see what some of our tainers out there think.

[smokeberly]

There has to be some hint of HA... I mean they use a guy dressed in a bite suit.. his job is aggitator (sp?) he teases the dog.. swats at him and when the dog barks and what not he recieves praise from the handler.. so I would believe they have to have some sort of HA brought on by the training.

I know when I was working one night and all of sudden I hear a police copter overhead, and bam! Swat cars all around. Anyway, the copter guy was saying "the dogs are loose, remain in your homes, the dogs will bite you. Remain in your homes"

So...yeah, I'm thinking HA *has* to be there for police work.

[Cinzomzm]

I just hope that PA system was loud enough for everyone to hear because that is a law suit waiting to happen! I can just imagine one of those dogs chaseing grandma in the house with an arm full of groceries! She gets bitten on the ass and the cops are saying GRANDMA WE TOLD YOU TO STAY IN THE HOUSE!

[smokeberly]

I just hope that PA system was loud enough for everyone to hear because that is a law suit waiting to happen! I can just imagine one of those dogs chaseing grandma in the house with an arm full of groceries! She gets bitten on the ass and the cops are saying GRANDMA WE TOLD YOU TO STAY IN THE HOUSE!

Sure scared the sh*t out of me, that's for sure!

They were training the police dogs in the park the other day. They hid treats under the leaves, and then sent the dogs to find them. Anyway, the cops kept telling people to stay away. I happened to have just walked out of my house with both my dogs. I don't think we've ever made it to the car that fast!

[Peabelilt]

I know when I was working one night and all of sudden I hear a police copter overhead, and bam! Swat cars all around. Anyway, the copter guy was saying "the dogs are loose, remain in your homes, the dogs will bite you. Remain in your homes"

So...yeah, I'm thinking HA *has* to be there for police work.

Sure scared the sh*t out of me, that's for sure!

They were training the police dogs in the park the other day. They hid treats under the leaves, and then sent the dogs to find them. Anyway, the cops kept telling people to stay away. I happened to have just walked out of my house with both my dogs. I don't think we've ever made it to the car that fast!

I'm sorry but, I'm having a hard time with these

[Belindanan]

There has to be some hint of HA... I mean they use a guy dressed in a bite suit.. his job is aggitator (sp?) he teases the dog.. swats at him and when the dog barks and what not he recieves praise from the handler.. so I would believe they have to have some sort of HA brought on by the training.

I don't know if it's HA or the dog is just trained to attack what the handler tells the dog to attack. I have to think about that. i know some of the bombs dogs where I work will rip you apart when told to do so. Otherwise, they are very gentle.

[VYholden]

The rules for releasing a "bite" dog up here are the same with DOC (where I work) and the police. You have to have the suspect in "hot pursuit" meaning you have to have him in sight, or have him cornered.. i.e. in a room or alone or a shed.. something of the like. We ca't just turn the dog loose... that just seems like a bad bad idea