[Jueqelyl]

I happy that you are not POTUS. I saw an interview of a man who just finished voting in SC. Sort of looked like a Bob's big boy statue and the person from CNN asked who he voted for. His answer was "I am scared, I voted for the N word". On panic what will happen when your neighbor goes to the ACaMe and is told his credit card has been rejected ? Multiply that a couple of hundred million people.

They will be forced to save, then spend and invest .. all would benefit the future stability of our country

[Pjayjukr]

They will be forced to save, then spend and invest .. all would benefit the future stability of our country

It would be very hard to save when there is no income and the economy just went into crawl mode. You wouldn't be able to even cash in your now worthless assets.

[refdhbgtd]

It would be very hard to save when there is no income and the economy just went into crawl mode. You wouldn't be able to even cash in your now worthless assets.

Talking to a wall. He believes that he'll be on the right side of the fallout and that the death of a million people is just a part of life....

[ElenaEvgeevna]

Talking to a wall. He believes that he'll be on the right side of the fallout and that the death of a million people is just a part of life....

At least it was a civil discussion. I doubt that many people liked what I feel had to be done but in the long run could be best route. Some of the blame has to be on the shoulders of the Democrates for not reigning in G W during the second term. It may have been too late but they might have lessened the damage. Where's that go back button ?

[HaremShaih]

At least it was a civil discussion. I doubt that many people liked what I feel had to be done but in the long run could be best route. Some of the blame has to be on the shoulders of the Democrates for not reigning in G W during the second term. It may have been too late but they might have lessened the damage. Where's that go back button ?

Litter ... I may disagree w/ u 99% of tje time but my discussions are always civil.

Why would the Dems want to reign in a big goverment Repubic like Boooosh?

[retyopj]

Litter ... I may disagree w/ u 99% of tje time but my discussions are always civil.

Why would the Dems want to reign in a big goverment Repubic like Boooosh?

Recent history (Obama dealing with this disaster aside) Democrates have been more conservative than the Republicans. I don't know about you but no doc mortgage loans seemed like a perfect recipe for disaster. The lack of confirmation of info on these and other mortgage loans insured an extremely high level of defaults and a ton of overvalued REO. Tax cuts while running two wars, cut me a break. This subject has been beat to death but at the very least some restraint during G W's second term may have lessened the problem and allowed it to be manageable. Instead it continued to spiral out of control.

[KlaraNovikoffa]

Just thoughts that went through my mind as this disaster surfaced. What would have happened if the Fed did not try to have a soft landing ? We might be trading beads now. There were many things I didn't like but the alternatives could have been unreal. The underwater loans could have been multiples of what they are now, investments wiped out, the stock market could have dropped way more than the 50% it did, the FDIC couldn't have covered anything near what the claims would be, tax receipts would have dropped to near zero and we would have historic unemployment. Just thoughts.

The TARP bailout would have been about the same had the Federal government simply just funded the principal of all the bad mortgage loans, then Congress could have turned around and set a penalty income tax rate to all those who got forgiven mortgages along with forfeiting any gains on the sale of their homes. Those getting a rescue would get targeted with a penalty that would stick with them for as long as they stayed in that house and would give up any gains if they sold the house, WITHOUT affecting other innocent taxpayers. That would have kept the banking industry intact and there wouldn't even have been a stimulus bill (wouldn't need one), Lehman would have survived, Bear Stearns would have still collapsed, but Fannie and Freddie would have existed unchanged, and nobody would even know what the words "credit crisis" means.

Yeah that moral hazard thing. The trouble with moral hazard is that the suggested antidote for it: moral righteousness, is a very bitter pill that you force innocent people to swallow (all those layoffs of renters who didn't even participate in this crap), and the recovery costs are now orders of magnitudes larger than the problem that existed in the spring of 2008.



So here we are, the 3rd year of this saga... and the Medicare retirement age is gonna shoot up when it otherwise wouldn't have, so far 200,000+ gov't employees have been flushed down the toilet, mainly at the state and local level, the population has increased but tens of thousands of teachers have been tossed on the street so far and it looks like we got another 30 to 50 thousand more to fire---we are basically going to follow the same "Austerity Prosperity" cycle that Greece is in right now which so far hasn't been working. Greece is set to tighten their belts again, and I bet in 5 months the drama will come back and the market will be screaming for more cutbacks.

Of course we have plenty of idiots that blame all the jobless on "Obamacare". LOL private employers were already screaming mad before Obama care at private payors and their jacked up premiums. Anthem tried to pull that 13% rate hike a while back and got bitchslapped.


So that's what's going to happen to us. Watch most of the GOP party scream bloody murder when the proposals come along for a 20% reduction in Defense spending. Because you know the core RNC doesn't EVER want to see a reduced dime of defense spending.





Oh by the way, the defense contractors know what is coming down the road. The Lockheed office over in Yardley/Middletown in Bucks County is gonna get slashed. They grew that office out before Obama took over, now they're probably gonna shutter it down. Same is going to go on all over the defense space. Koch will probably start layoffs next year I imagine.

[RozzyLiu]

The TARP bailout would have been about the same had the Federal government simply just funded the principal of all the bad mortgage loans, then Congress could have turned around and set a penalty income tax rate to all those who got forgiven mortgages along with forfeiting any gains on the sale of their homes. Those getting a rescue would get targeted with a penalty that would stick with them for as long as they stayed in that house and would give up any gains if they sold the house, WITHOUT affecting other innocent taxpayers. That would have kept the banking industry intact and there wouldn't even have been a stimulus bill (wouldn't need one), Lehman would have survived, Bear Stearns would have still collapsed, but Fannie and Freddie would have existed unchanged, and nobody would even know what the words "credit crisis" means.

Yeah that moral hazard thing. The trouble with moral hazard is that the suggested antidote for it: moral righteousness, is a very bitter pill that you force innocent people to swallow (all those layoffs of renters who didn't even participate in this crap), and the recovery costs are now orders of magnitudes larger than the problem that existed in the spring of 2008.



So here we are, the 3rd year of this saga... and the Medicare retirement age is gonna shoot up when it otherwise wouldn't have, so far 200,000+ gov't employees have been flushed down the toilet, mainly at the state and local level, the population has increased but tens of thousands of teachers have been tossed on the street so far and it looks like we got another 30 to 50 thousand more to fire---we are basically going to follow the same "Austerity Prosperity" cycle that Greece is in right now which so far hasn't been working. Greece is set to tighten their belts again, and I bet in 5 months the drama will come back and the market will be screaming for more cutbacks.

Of course we have plenty of idiots that blame all the jobless on "Obamacare". LOL private employers were already screaming mad before Obama care at private payors and their jacked up premiums. Anthem tried to pull that 13% rate hike a while back and got bitchslapped.


So that's what's going to happen to us. Watch most of the GOP party scream bloody murder when the proposals come along for a 20% reduction in Defense spending. Because you know the core RNC doesn't EVER want to see a reduced dime of defense spending.





Oh by the way, the defense contractors know what is coming down the road. The Lockheed office over in Yardley/Middletown in Bucks County is gonna get slashed. They grew that office out before Obama took over, now they're probably gonna shutter it down. Same is going to go on all over the defense space. Koch will probably start layoffs next year I imagine.

Your proposal to have the government pay down the loans to market value sounds good but how would market value be determined in a rapidly falling market ? My father a real estate broker told me that all real estate brokers and sales people are whores. He was wrong whores have much higher morals. If there is a hole they will exploit it. In many, if not most of the underwater loans the paperwork is not worth the paper it's on. This would involve a new appraisal on every loan with the appraiser trying to predict the future value, good luck with that. With the bad paperwork people who will be given money when they will not even be able afford the reset mortgage which is the problem with a lot of the existing loans. There is no easy fix.

One of the problems with heath care is we can now give people a few extra years on the planet for a ton of money. Now we are starting to make body parts out of stem cells, that will be cheap. How can that be controlled ? Now it's sort of self limiting because there are only so many organs but soon we'll have lots. Ya want a windpipe ? That will be 10 million for the part and 10 million for installation. Bill Gates will be OK but Bill Bates is going to die.

The solution is easy and cost almost nothing, only make well documented loans to people with good income and credit.

Your posts always make me think.