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Old 07-21-2012, 12:12 AM   #1
fotodemujerahldesnugdo

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Default Colorado Massacre
July 20, 2012
12 Killed in Shooting at Colorado Theater
By DAN FROSCH, WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM, TIMOTHY WILLIAMS and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT
AURORA, Colo. — A gunman dressed head to foot in body armor and brandishing three weapons, including an assault rifle, opened fire in a theater crowded with families and children at a midnight showing of the Batman movie “The Dark Knight Rises” in a Denver suburb early Friday morning, killing at least 12 people and wounding 59 others, police and federal officials said.

The suspect, James Holmes, 24, told the police after his arrest that he had booby-trapped his Aurora apartment with explosive devices, leading the police to evacuate five buildings in the neighborhood as they sought to disable what they described as “incendiary devices” rigged to trip wires.

Mr. Holmes’s only criminal history was a traffic summons, said Aurora’s police chief, Dan Oates. Mr. Holmes earned a bachelor’s degree with honors in neuroscience in 2010 from the University of California, Riverside.

During the attack, witnesses said Mr. Holmes had entered through a side door of the packed theater and first set off at least two smoke devices before firing randomly at audience members, who had just settled into their seats. Within minutes, he was arrested in a parking lot behind the theater near his car, the police said.

Mr. Holmes had apparently planned the attack for some time: He wore a gas mask, body armor, a tactical helmet and was dressed completely in black. He entered the theater with an AR-15 assault rifle, a Remington 12-guage shotgun and a 40-caliber Glock handgun. A fourth gun, another Glock pistol, was found in his car. The authorities believe that Mr. Holmes acted alone, and that the death toll may increase because some of the injuries were serious.

The police and witnesses described a scene of utter chaos inside the darkened, smoke-filled theater as bullets resounded loudly around them, and people who had gone to see a PG-13-rated action movie were suddenly forced to scramble to safety as friends and loved ones were felled around them.

Chief Oates said he did not know how many shots Mr. Holmes had fired, saying only that it was “many, many rounds.”

Jordan Crofter, 19, said he had felt lucky to have snagged a seat in the front row at the midnight screening. But about five minutes into the movie, he said, a side door swung open and a man in black wearing a gas mask calmly strode through.

At first, Mr. Crofter thought perhaps the man was part of the movie. But within a few seconds, he said, the man hurled two gas canisters down the theater aisle.

“He walked in so casually, like he knew what he was doing,” said Mr. Crofter. “I heard two pops. Everyone was distracted. That was when the panic and the chaos started.”

Mr. Crofter said that once he noticed that the man was also carrying a rifle, he ran in the opposite direction as fast as he could.

“He started shooting, and everyone ducked and started screaming,” he said. “He looked like he was ready to go into battle, It was like he was walking around and having fun. Emotionless.”

With the investigation in its earliest stages, the authorities said they were unsure what prompted the attack, or whether Mr. Holmes had ties to any hate groups.

“No motivation yet,” one senior law enforcement official said, adding, “The kid’s not talking.”Mr. Holmes however, did tell the police that he had explosives at an Aurora residence, which led F.B.I. agents, along with agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the local police to cordon off a north Aurora neighborhood, focusing attention on a third-floor apartment in a red brick building.

Firefighters perched on a cherry picker were seen breaking the window with an ax.

The police described the apartment as being full of wires.

“It’s something I’ve never seen before,” said Chief Oates.

John Priest, who lives in the neighborhood, said that his 21-year-old son had been in the movie theater with two friends during the shooting, but was unharmed. The two friends, however, had been wounded — one was hit by a bullet in the buttocks and grazed in the leg, and the other was shot in the leg. Neither injury is life threatening, he said.

“How could people do something like this?” he said. “I don’t understand this.”

Aurora, which has a population of about 325,000, had only six killings in all of 2011, according to F.B.I. crime data.

At Gateway High School, where the authorities have directed people to gather to get news about friends and family members, Rosemary Ratcliff said she had so far been unable to find her son, Abdullah, 17, who she believes had been at the midnight screening.

“I haven’t heard from him, and none of his friends are picking up their phones,” she said in a near-whisper as she left the school.

The authorities have not released the names of victims, but Pentagon officials said that some members of the military were among the casualties. The officials said they did not yet have an accurate count, or know what branches of the service the victims were from, or whether they were dead or injured.

The injured were sent to six hospitals in the region, including Children’s Hospital Colorado and the University of Colorado Hospital.

“The entire emergency department staff was called in,” said Dr. Comilla Sasson, who said that even though the emergency room was full before the shooting happened, it admitted 20 victims who ranged in age from 3 months to 45 years. The victims’ injuries included gunshot wounds and shrapnel injuries, Dr. Sasson said. Nine people were in critical condition.

At least three other people were in critical condition at other hospitals, officials said.

The shooting erupted at the Century 16 Theater during the first showings of “The Dark Knight Rises.” Throngs had gathered, some dressed as characters from the highly anticipated Batman sequel.

The police and witnesses said after the gunman entered the theater through an exit door that there was the smell of either pepper spray or tear gas in the theater as gunshots rang out.

Chief Oates said the device made “a hissing sound” before starting to emit smoke.

President Obama, in southern Florida as part of a campaign swing, was notified of the shooting by his top counterterrorism adviser, John O. Brennan, at 5:26 a.m., the White House said. He later released a statement saying that he and his wife, Michelle, were “shocked and saddened by the horrific and tragic shooting in Colorado,” and vowed to bring those responsible to justice.

Mr. Obama was briefed Friday morning by Mr. Brennan, Robert S. Mueller III, the F.B.I. director, and Jacob Lew, the White House chief of staff. “We do not believe at this point there was an apparent nexus to terrorism,” Jay Carney, the White House press secretary, told reporters on Air Force One.

Mr. Obama returned to Washington on Friday afternoon, cutting short his Florida trip, his campaign said.

In remarks in Fort Myers, Fla., Mr. Obama talked in highly personal ways about the tragedy. “My daughters go to the movies,” he said. “What if Malia and Sasha had been in the theater as so many of our kids do every day? Michelle and I will be fortunate enough to hug our girls a little tighter tonight.”

He reflected on the fragility of life and the triviality of so much of what passes for daily existence, calling on the country to remember what really matters. “The people we lost in Aurora loved and were loved,” he said. “They were mothers and fathers, they were husbands and wives, sisters and brothers, sons and daughters, friends and neighbors. They had hopes for the future and they had dreams that were not yet fulfilled.”

He asked for a moment of silence and asked the crowd to “spend a little time thinking about the incredible blessings that God has given us.”

Both Mr. Obama and Mitt Romney, the presumed Republican presidential nominee, said they planned to pull television campaign advertisements in Colorado.

The movie studio Warner Bros., which is owned by Time Warner, released a statement Friday morning, saying that the company and the filmmakers were “deeply saddened” and “extend our sincere sympathies to the families and loved ones of the victims at this tragic time.”

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg of New York, who has waged a national campaign for stricter gun laws, called on President Obama and Mr. Romney to more concretely address the issue of gun violence in their campaigns.

“You know, soothing words are nice,” Mr. Bloomberg said during his weekly radio program, “but maybe it’s time that the two people who want to be president of the United States stand up and tell us what they are going to do about it, because this is obviously a problem across the country.”

On Friday morning, television images showed several ambulances moving about and dozens of police officers gathered at the Century 16 complex in the early morning darkness. A police robot could be seen inspecting a white compact sedan, its two doors and trunk wide open, in the parking lot of the movie complex, television images showed, though it was unclear whether the car belonged to the gunman.

Cellphone video appeared to show the traumatic scene outside of the large multiplex immediately after the shooting. Some people wandered away with bloodstained shirts as others could be heard screaming, “Get out of here!”

Dan Frosch reported from Aurora, William K. Rashbaum and Timothy Williams from New York, and Michael S. Schmidt from Washington. Reporting was contributed by Peter Baker from West Palm Beach, Fla.; Elisabeth Bumiller from Washington; and J. David Goodman, Victoria Shannon and Thomas Kaplan from New York. Kitty Bennett and Sheelagh McNeill contributed research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/us...ooting.html?hp
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:13 AM   #2
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July 20, 2012

We’ve Seen This Movie Before

By ROGER EBERT

JAMES HOLMES, who opened fire before the midnight premiere of “The Dark Knight Rises,” could not have seen the movie. Like many whose misery is reflected in violence, he may simply have been drawn to a highly publicized event with a big crowd. In cynical terms, he was seeking a publicity tie-in. He was like one of those goofballs waving in the background when a TV reporter does a stand-up at a big story.
James Holmes must also have been insane, and his inner terror expressed itself, as it often does these days, in a link between pop culture and firearms. There was nothing bigger happening in his world right now than the new Batman movie, and in preparation for this day, or another like it, he was purchasing firearms and booby-trapping his apartment. When he was arrested after the shootings, he made no attempt at resistance. His mission was accomplished.
I’m not sure there is an easy link between movies and gun violence. I think the link is between the violence and the publicity. Those like James Holmes, who feel the need to arm themselves, may also feel a deep, inchoate insecurity and a need for validation. Whenever a tragedy like this takes place, it is assigned catchphrases and theme music, and the same fragmentary TV footage of the shooter is cycled again and again. Somewhere in the night, among those watching, will be another angry, aggrieved loner who is uncoiling toward action. The cinematic prototype is Travis Bickle of “Taxi Driver.” I don’t know if James Holmes cared deeply about Batman. I suspect he cared deeply about seeing himself on the news.
Should this young man — whose nature was apparently so obvious to his mother that, when a ABC News reporter called, she said “You have the right person” — have been able to buy guns, ammunition and explosives? The gun lobby will say yes. And the endless gun control debate will begin again, and the lobbyists of the National Rifle Association will go to work, and the op-ed thinkers will have their usual thoughts, and the right wing will issue alarms, and nothing will change. And there will be another mass murder.
That James Holmes is insane, few may doubt. Our gun laws are also insane, but many refuse to make the connection. The United States is one of few developed nations that accepts the notion of firearms in public hands. In theory, the citizenry needs to defend itself. Not a single person at the Aurora, Colo., theater shot back, but the theory will still be defended.
I was sitting in a Chicago bar one night with my friend McHugh when a guy from down the street came in and let us see that he was packing heat.
“Why do you need to carry a gun?” McHugh asked him.
“I live in a dangerous neighborhood.”
“It would be safer if you moved.”
This would be an excellent time for our political parties to join together in calling for restrictions on the sale and possession of deadly weapons. That is unlikely, because the issue has become so closely linked to paranoid fantasies about a federal takeover of personal liberties that many politicians feel they cannot afford to advocate gun control.
Immediately after a shooting last month in the food court of the Eaton Centre mall in Toronto, a young woman named Jessica Ghawi posted a blog entry. Three minutes before a gunman opened fire, she had been seated at the exact place he fired from.
“I was shown how fragile life was,” she wrote. “I saw the terror on bystanders’ faces. I saw the victims of a senseless crime. I saw lives change. I was reminded that we don’t know when or where our time on Earth will end. When or where we will breathe our last breath.”
This same woman was one of the fatalities at the midnight screening in Aurora. The circle of madness is closing.

Roger Ebert is the film critic of the Chicago Sun-Times and the author of “Life Itself: A Memoir.”




http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/op...gewanted=print
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:27 AM   #3
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it was reported that this loon also dyed his hair red, and told the police he was the joker...
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:04 AM   #4
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What is it with Colorado?
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:47 AM   #5
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I hope we're all in agreement that the shooter's photo should NOT be posted here.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:59 PM   #6
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What is it with Colorado?
My question would be, "What is it with America?" Untill we as a nation address the issue of the ease that guns are available, we can expect more horrible shootings such as this.
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:26 PM   #7
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‘Dark Knight Rises’ shooting: Cops deactivate elaborate booby trap in gunman James Holmes’ Colorado apartment

Bomb squads on Saturday morning successfully used a “controlled detonation” to disarm tripwires rigged to set off a maze of mysterious liquids and mortar shells.

By Bill Hutchinson / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS


Published: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 1:52 PM
Updated: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 1:52 PM




BOB PEARSON/EPA

An officer in bomb protection gear walks outside the apartment of suspected gunman James Holmes in Aurora, Co. Holmes was apprehended following a shooting incident at the premiere of the latest Batman movie 'The Dark Knight Rises' at the Century 16 Theaters in Aurora. Twelve people were killed and 58 injured, making the shooting the worst since the Virginia Tech shootings in 2007.

Cops have started the process of deactivating an elaborate booby trap in Colorado gunman James Holmes’ apartment.
Bomb squads on Saturday morning successfully used a “controlled detonation” to disarm tripwires rigged to set off a maze of mysterious liquids and mortar shells.
They said they might have to use at least one more controlled detonation to dismantle the rest of the explosives the accused mass murderer jerry-rigged to maim and kill.
“We have been successful in defeating our first threat,” Sgt. Cassidee Carlson of the Aurora Police Department said at midmorning press briefing. “This is some serious stuff they're dealing with.”
“Detonation was successful,” the Aurora Police Department Tweeted at 1:40 p.m.
Carlson said firefighters were put into place and police evacuated the adjacent blocks around the apartment building.
“We have no idea how long any of this is going to take,” Carlson said. “We don’t need to rush anything.”
She said bomb techs hope to disarm the 800-square-foot apartment with as little damage as possible.
“We don’t want to lose evidentiary value,” Carlson said. “We’ll be cautious about how we deal with things.”
Kevork Djansezian/Getty Images

Seen from the air, police surround the booby-trapped apartment of suspect James Holmes after he went on a shooting rampage at nearby Century 16 movie theatre during an early morning screening of the new Batman movie, 'The Dark Knight Rises' on July 21.
Carlson said firefighters were put into place and police evacuated the adjacent blocks around the apartment building.
“We have no idea how long any of this is going to take,” Carlson said. “We don’t need to rush anything.”
She said bomb techs hope to disarm the 800-square-foot apartment with as little damage as possible.
“We don’t want to lose evidentiary value,” Carlson said. “We’ll be cautious about how we deal with things.”
Carlson admitted police have still not identified the contents of the some of the canisters in the apartment.
“There is still unknowns,” Carlson said. “We are aware of some jars that may contain accelerant.”
Now that the tripwires are dismantled, bomb-squad cops will tackle a second set of problems.
Chris Schneider/Getty Images

Law enforcement officials tow nearby cars as they prepare to disarm the booby-trapped apartment of suspect James Holmes after he went on a shooting rampage at nearby Century 16 movie theatre during an early morning screening of the new Batman movie, 'The Dark Knight Rises' on July 21, 2012 in Aurora, outside of Denver, Colorado. According to reports, 12 people have been killed and over 59 injured. Police have the suspect, twenty-four year old James Holmes of North Aurora, in custody and are now dealing with various devices and trip wires in the apartment.


Sources told the Washington Post cops face up to 30 softball-size canisters packed in explosive powder. Other canisters appear to be large fireworks, some containing what is believed to be “smokeless powder.”
Finally, police will be confronted by a series of containers filled with mysterious brown liquid, bullets and black powder. Some of the liquids are as dark as Guinness beer topped with a layer of lighter colored liquids.
Officers hope to dismantle the explosive devices and move them to a dump truck filled with explosive-deadening sand.
Holmes, a neurosciences student, apparently set up a timer that triggered his stereo system to play loud techno music, hoping to prompt neighbors to call 911 and draw cops at the same time he was killing people at a movie theater five miles away.
Police believe Holmes set his apartment to blow up responders as they crashed through the door.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz21HowFNQK
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:33 AM   #8
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The shootings in Norway were a shock ...but this? No surprise here.

There are enough mass shootings in the US to make last week's Tuscaloosa incident already forgotten (17 shot).

That one was also carried out with a military-style assault rifle.

Obama's speech of condolence to the families of the victims in Colorado was a disgrace.

The leader of a country were this shit takes place all too frequently might want to mention that there's something wrong with a system that allows some jerk-off kid to legally buy 6,000 rounds of ammunition and an AR-15 assault rifle (equipped with a high capacity drum style magazine).


-----

The AR-15:

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Old 07-22-2012, 03:46 AM   #9
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And of course the American media kicks into 24hour overdrive and stops at nothing.

Below I'm posting a link to the Today Show with Savannah Guthrie interviewing a young woman who was at the screening.

The poor girl seems to be in shock and on the edge of a breakdown... but Ms. Guthrie barrels through.

If that's not enough, a few minutes into the interview a 3D enactment of the tragedy is shown.

My heart goes out to the poor girl, but the Today Show should be ashamed:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...48305#48268617

And speaking of stopping at nothing: the Today Show has brought back Ann Curry to cover the tragedy.

Just a couple of weeks ago they dumped her... but hey, no one has a soothing "I-understand-your-pain" voice quite like Ann.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:24 PM   #10
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Your last two posts were spot on. What has to happened before gun control reform becomes a reality in this country? Unfortunately, we'll never see the day; the gun special interests groups in this country are too strong and our leaders lack the political will to take them on, Obama included. It makes me sick. And your right; NBC's coverage was disgraceful.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:21 PM   #11
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Veronica Moser: The youngest of theater shooter James Holmes's victims in the Aurora 'The Dark Knight Rises' movie screening attack

Veronica's mother remains hospitalized with a bullet lodged in her neck, unaware that her daughter is dead. 'Nobody can tell her about it,' a family member said. 'She is in critical condition, but all she's asking about is her daughter.'

By Erin Durkin / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Published: Sunday, July 22, 2012, 11:33 AM
Updated: Sunday, July 22, 2012, 1:29 PM



Veronica Moser was the youngest child killed by Colorado madman James Holmes during his movie theater attack outside of Denver.

The youngest victim of the Aurora shooting was a vibrant 6-year-old girl who had just learned to swim.
Veronica Moser, 6, was among the 12 people shot to death by madman James Holmes.
Her gravely injured mom Ashley Moser, 25, was in critical condition at Aurora Medical Center, drifting in and out of consciousness.
After calling out for daughter, unaware she had died, she was reportedly informed on Sunday that Veronica had been killed in the shooting, NBC's Kate Snow reported.
Veronica loved school, dressing up and was bragging to her family about the swimming lessons she just started, said her great-aunt Annie Dalton.
“She was a wonderful 6-year-old girl — proud that she learned how to swim this summer,” Dalton told Bloomberg News. “She loved to go to school, loved her grandpa who just passed away recently — that was hard for her.”
"She loved to dress up and read and was doing well at school. She was beautiful and innocent,” she told The Denver Post. “It’s a nightmare right now.”
Ashley Moser, who had recently been accepted to medical school, was shot in the neck and abdomen, and doctors have been unable to remove the bullet in her neck. She was expected to suffer some paralysis, though the extent was unclear.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz21Nu30qfp


And another story about guys who died protecting their girlfriends:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1119395
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:25 PM   #12
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There is a simple problem.

it is not just in the allowance of guns and ammunition being sold in the US, but the lack of ANY kind of filter or warning system to be set up to alert us about this.

Somehow, you buy a bag of fertilizer and you could be shipped off to Guantanamo. But you buy 6000 rounds of ammo, 3 guns, extended clips, riot armor and a gas mask and you are hunkey-dorey?

Buying that much that fast is usually a sign. Also, someone who has these things setup in a way that would be feasible for direct use (3 weapons that could all be carried, etc) is another warning sign that should have had a background check on him.

As for pictures of him, not posting, but he looks a lot like a bunch of other social rejects that just demanded attention. We had one in our HS way back that ran through the school with a fire axe and smashed up a $250K planetarium machine (he was also known for burying cats up to their head and running over them with lawnmowers, but I digress).

We spend so much time and money tracking down pot smokers and mexican illegals and we seem to lose site of these things that really can hurt us much more directly.


As for our "rights", that is such a stupid paranoid argument. Until we get back to local militias (get RID OF THE NATIONAL GUARD!), the need for anything more than a small revolver is fiction.

But people like holding their mechanical penis in their hands. And although 99% of the people out there can stroke it the right way, there is still that 1% that feels they need to bend other people over with it.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:45 PM   #13
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Somehow, you buy a bag of fertilizer and you could be shipped off to Guantanamo. But you buy 6000 rounds of ammo, 3 guns, extended clips, riot armor and a gas mask and you are hunkey-dorey?
The NRA lobby is too strong and the political will of our elected officials is too weak. They're all a bunch of damned cowards.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:51 PM   #14
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There is a simple problem.

it is not just in the allowance of guns and ammunition being sold in the US, but the lack of ANY kind of filter or warning system to be set up to alert us about this.

Somehow, you buy a bag of fertilizer and you could be shipped off to Guantanamo. But you buy 6000 rounds of ammo, 3 guns, extended clips, riot armor and a gas mask and you are hunkey-dorey?
There are enough people doing this, the trying to keep track of them would be functionally useless. When Obama came into office there was a wholesale panic in the shooting community that the bulk buying created serous shortages. Even if the sales were tracked, what would be done about the data? Go ask each one if they're planning a massacre.

And even trying to set up a system would kick a political hornets nest. Even if that could be done, trying to take action agains someone for just purchasing what is essentially a legal commodity would create even a bigger firestorm. Gun control has become politically radioactive for a reason.


Buying that much that fast is usually a sign. Also, someone who has these things setup in a way that would be feasible for direct use (3 weapons that could all be carried, etc) is another warning sign that should have had a background check on him.

As for pictures of him, not posting, but he looks a lot like a bunch of other social rejects that just demanded attention. We had one in our HS way back that ran through the school with a fire axe and smashed up a $250K planetarium machine (he was also known for burying cats up to their head and running over them with lawnmowers, but I digress).

We spend so much time and money tracking down pot smokers and mexican illegals and we seem to lose site of these things that really can hurt us much more directly.
Whatever you think about pot smoking and illegal immigration, these people have actually done something illegal. What you're talking about is trying to predict who will do something illegal. That's a big step.

As for our "rights", that is such a stupid paranoid argument. Until we get back to local militias (get RID OF THE NATIONAL GUARD!), the need for anything more than a small revolver is fiction.
Sorry that ship has saled. With the SCOTUS Heller and McDonald decisions, the question of whether there's an individual right to gun ownership (and not just your small pistol) has been decided, and not in the way you'd like.

But people like holding their mechanical penis in their hands. And although 99% of the people out there can stroke it the right way, there is still that 1% that feels they need to bend other people over with it.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:02 PM   #15
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There are enough people doing this, the trying to keep track of them would be functionally useless. When Obama came into office there was a wholesale panic in the shooting community that the bulk buying created serous shortages. Even if the sales were tracked, what would be done about the data? Go ask each one if they're planning a massacre.

And even trying to set up a system would kick a political hornets nest. Even if that could be done, trying to take action agains someone for just purchasing what is essentially a legal commodity would create even a bigger firestorm. Gun control has become politically radioactive for a reason.
We could legislate waiting periods, background checks, restrictions on certain types of weapons such as assault weapons, types of ammunitions etc...

Whatever you think about pot smoking and illegal immigration, these people have actually done something illegal. What you're talking about is trying to predict who will do something illegal. That's a big step.
That is not the point. We focus tremendously high amounts of resources policing activity that is illegal but harmless at the expense of activity that is legal but harmful. Our society has lost its compass. We have no idea why we don't like people smoking pot but we outlaw it. We have no idea why people need assault weapons, but that is OK.


Sorry that ship has saled. With the SCOTUS Heller and McDonald decisions, the question of whether there's an individual right to gun ownership (and not just your small pistol) has been decided, and not in the way you'd like.
Not quite. The SCOTUS decision was very focused on people owning hand guns to protect their property. Scalia went out of his way to define the parameters of his decison in very narrow terms and to not address issues such as waiting periods, registration requirements, assault weapons and certain types of ammo.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:41 PM   #16
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We could legislate waiting periods, background checks, restrictions on certain types of weapons such as assault weapons, types of ammunitions etc...
In the wake of Heller and McDonald, a lot of these that are in place will be challenged. More likely than not, they'll go down. So from an LE standpoint, as tools, these will likely be unavailable.




That is not the point. We focus tremendously high amounts of resources policing activity that is illegal but harmless at the expense of activity that is legal but harmful. Our society has lost its compass. We have no idea why we don't like people smoking pot but we outlaw it. We have no idea why people need assault weapons, but that is OK.


Not quite. The SCOTUS decision was very focused on people owning hand guns to protect their property. Scalia went out of his way to define the parameters of his decison in very narrow terms and to not address issues such as waiting periods, registration requirements, assault weapons and certain types of ammo. In terms of dealing with the narrow questions that that were the basis of the suits, they established that the 2nd amendment confers a right directly to individuals, and that it applies to laws passed at any level of government. Other that that, they didn't determine much else. How these rulings will apply to other gun laws will be determined by future president. But no one in the antigun community thought these rulings would go the way the did, so I think predictions that they won't be used to remove other gun restrictions sound pretty hollow now.

But getting away from specific gun issues, the question seems to be how could this have been stopped beforehand. Really, I don't think it could have been. This was one guy acting alone, who had essentially no prior interactions with the criminal justice system, who was never judged mentally ill, and who had significant scientific/technical skill. If all the antigun measures you'd love to see imposed were in place, he'd simple find someother way to commit his massacre, most likely some sort of bomb and/or incendiary device (which is what he rigged at his apartment.)
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:50 PM   #17
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I think it is a stretch to suggest that efforts to legisalte restrictions on AW, certain types of ammo, and to add more rigerous registraton and filtering disciplines will be challanged. In both instance, the votes for the majority were 5-4, and each majority opinion contained differing views on elements of the law. What is lacking is he polictical will on the part of our coward legislators.

What is interesting however is that the SCOTUS rulings have had very little effect on local gun control efforts in places like, well NYC for instance.

In terms of how this could have prevented before hand, you have a case where an individual purchased a great deal of assault and other automatic weapons, tactical riot gear including a bullet proof vest, tear gas, and many, many rounds of ammo in a very short period over the internet with no backgound check, registration, or requirements by the sellers to report to these large purchases to law enforcement, despite the high volume and nature of what was purchased. What do you think?
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:40 PM   #18
Kthzltje

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I think it is a stretch to suggest that efforts to legisalte restrictions on AW, certain types of ammo, and to add more rigerous registraton and filtering disciplines will be challanged. In both instance, the votes for the majority were 5-4, and each majority opinion contained differing views on elements of the law. What is lacking is he polictical will on the part of our coward legislators.
I have a feeling we'll find this out experimentally.

What is interesting however is that the SCOTUS rulings have had very little effect on local gun control efforts in places like, well NYC for instance.
Yet. There are cases challenging NYS gun control laws percolating up the judicial food chain. It might take a few year for one to get to the SCOTUS.

In terms of how this could have prevented before hand, you have a case where an individual purchased a great deal of assault and other automatic weapons, tactical riot gear including a bullet proof vest, tear gas, and many, many rounds of ammo in a very short period over the internet with no backgound check, registration, or requirements by the sellers to report to these large purchases to law enforcement, despite the high volume and nature of what was purchased. What do you think? Let's say that there was some sort of tracking for this, and the Aurora PD got an email at some point before the attack, with just that information. What are they going to do about it? None of the stuff is illegal. The purchaser didn't do anything illegal. Also, if they were getting this information, I'm sure this guy would be far from the only one that would get on the radar. So what action would they take, considering no laws had been broken?
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:56 PM   #19
autoloanexpert

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ILet's say that there was some sort of tracking for this, and the Aurora PD got an email at some point before the attack, with just that information. What are they going to do about it? None of the stuff is illegal. The purchaser didn't do anything illegal. Also, if they were getting this information, I'm sure this guy would be far from the only one that would get on the radar. So what action would they take, considering no laws had been broken?
You just made my point. AW possession should be illegal. You should have to register to buy ammo, and the purchase of large volumes of certain type of ammo should be illegal. And why does anyone need tear gas or riot gear?
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:10 PM   #20
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Good cops would put him on the radar.

One of the reasons why many crimes are prevented is because the cops start looking at certain tell signs that the individual is ready to move.

Him dying his hair orange, calling himself "joker" and asking for sex "before he goes to jail" would definitely be enough to get a warrant for possible terrorist activities.

What, you have to be a Muslim before shooting dozens of people is a terrorist activity? Otherwise it is just a "crime"?

The issue here is also not whether they could have done anything, but the fact that they COULDN'T DO ANYTHING with our current system. THAT is a sign that it is broken, not stipulating "Well what would they have done if they knew?"

I would rather have the options available to me to make a difference than to argue that I could not do anything even if I had them.
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