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Old 11-15-2011, 06:15 PM   #1
Brainpole

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Default Troops feel more pity than respect - Article
http://www.stripes.com/troops-feel-m...spect-1.160817

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...YLN_story.html

Troops believe the general public treats them as victims rather than heroes when civilians try to honor men and women in uniform, the Washington Post reported on Monday.

Sometimes I get that perception when someone tells me "thank you." I also get the perception that it's a forced thank you - as in if they see someone in uniform it's an automatic obligation. There are very few people who tell me thank you that I know mean it and they know what they're thanking me for.

The main problem is that most Americans don't care about the wars. If they don't know someone who is there, they ignore it. It doesn't help that the media only told negative stories. They never - or rarely - highlighted any of the good or anything we did. The perceptions from Vietnam didn't help either.

I think the article highlights that perception is out there. People do seem to highlight the struggles we face but no one talks about anything else we do. We're not always at war. Or they look at veterans as these PTSD monsters waiting to unleash violence. Not everyone but it happens. And that's the sad thing I think.
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:40 PM   #2
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I think you're right, what I once perceived as genuine appreciation is now starting to feel like people speaking out as they seem to feel obligated to, but maybe it's just me (apparently it's not). I remember back in college wrapped up in all the 9/11 fervor I was excited that our role was becoming so much at the forefront of everyone's mind. After a decade's worth of (hopefully) wisdom and endless demagoguing in the media later it is starting to make those approaches "ackward" to say the least. I smirk when I remember a day I made a brief trip to the market on a cold, rainy winter day when a handicapped lady beckoned me over to her car halfway across parking lot, she rolled down her window and passed the old "thank you so much for your service!" comment. My response was the half-hearted "Umm you're welcome..." while my mind was thinking "you had me come all the way over here for this?". This is a factor of how I tend to be rather harsh in forming my opinions about the individuals like the former marine dressed in parts of his uniform screaming at law enforcement officials at the tops of his lungs at Occupy Wall Street. I don't like using the reputation of our uniform as a gaming technique to sway the media, it's too easy and just brings us attention that I honestly don't want.
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:34 PM   #3
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I think you're right, what I once perceived as genuine appreciation is now starting to feel like people speaking out as they seem to feel obligated to, but maybe it's just me (apparently it's not). I remember back in college wrapped up in all the 9/11 fervor I was excited that our role was becoming so much at the forefront of everyone's mind. After a decade's worth of (hopefully) wisdom and endless demagoguing in the media later it is starting to make those approaches "ackward" to say the least. I smirk when I remember a day I made a brief trip to the market on a cold, rainy winter day when a handicapped lady beckoned me over to her car halfway across parking lot, she rolled down her window and passed the old "thank you so much for your service!" comment. My response was the half-hearted "Umm you're welcome..." while my mind was thinking "you had me come all the way over here for this?". This is a factor of how I tend to be rather harsh in forming my opinions about the individuals like the former marine dressed in parts of his uniform screaming at law enforcement officials at the tops of his lungs at Occupy Wall Street. I don't like using the reputation of our uniform as a gaming technique to sway the media, it's too easy and just brings us attention that I honestly don't want.
I don't mind if I'm at an event or something - like in my last unit if we ever helped out with community stuff then fine tell me thank you but when I'm in the grocery store in ACUs because I had to stop and pick something up, that's not the opportune time to randomly walk up and say 'thank you." I always feel so awkward because sometimes I forget I'm in ACUs because I'm in a hurry. I just want to tell people "You don't have to thank me." Or I want to ask "What do you do?" and thank them because their job is a necessity.

I also don't mind when businesses want to do something for veterans - like on Veterans' Day. That's nice. I don't expect it though.

I agree with you about the guy wearing parts of his uniform or even the other people who say they are veterans and show up at the protest in uniform. There's a regulation for that and just because you're no longer in doesn't mean it doesn't apply to you. I think it's disrespectful. Go ahead and protest - don't use the uniform as a way to get attention though. I don't want to be associated with half those crazies anyway.

I know when I graduated AIT I was walking through the airport in my Class A's and someone thanked me. I wanted to say "I haven't done anything yet."

I think if people want to thank us they should be more involved in the effort or something. I don't know - I wish we had the support like in WWII and people actually gave things up to help the war effort and knew what sacrifice really was. If people want to say thank you I just say "your welcome" or something. I can't wait to get out of the military and have to go job hunting and see looks from some people like "oh the military." I'm thinking about Walmart greeter...
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:52 PM   #4
blodwarttufla

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I think if people want to thank us they should be more involved in the effort or something. I don't know - I wish we had the support like in WWII and people actually gave things up to help the war effort and knew what sacrifice really was. If people want to say thank you I just say "your welcome" or something. I can't wait to get out of the military and have to go job hunting and see looks from some people like "oh the military." I'm thinking about Walmart greeter...
I personally would have a difficult time with this part, as not a single one of our current "wars" really has that same level of backing as WWII, which is our last instance when Congress actually declared it (vice getting dragged in apathetic when we were more or less committed already, although to be fair, the only difference there was we hadn't yet killed a substantial number of axis forces). A lot of the war propaganda back then was really a lot of precisely that, propaganda. Rationing commodities, being bombarded with "Buy Government War Bonds" commercials, and just being overloaded in general with the hype is kind of the antithesis of what I like to see. There's a part of me that is more than a little pleased that clueless, lazy hippies can be allowed to roam our sidewalks with signs because while it's silly to watch, it's still a very genuine response. The day we degrade ourselves to overzealous patriotism again is the day I foresee someone in office who will cease the day and take the final steps towards fascism.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:04 PM   #5
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This is why I make it my personal goal to not let anyone know I was in the military or been in combat. I didn't fight for anyone in this country. Most people I meet aren't worthy of me risking my life. I did it because my country asked me to and that is the only reason I needed.

I let it slip one time in a communications class that I had been to Afghanistan. The first question I get asked after class comes from this douche bag 18 year old kid. He asks me "What's it like to kill someone?" I just looked him in the eye and walked away.

I could go the rest of my life without anyone knowing where I've been and I would be the happiest (as happy as I can be) person on this earth.
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Old 11-16-2011, 03:30 PM   #6
Fsfkkkjz

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I personally would have a difficult time with this part, as not a single one of our current "wars" really has that same level of backing as WWII, which is our last instance when Congress actually declared it (vice getting dragged in apathetic when we were more or less committed already, although to be fair, the only difference there was we hadn't yet killed a substantial number of axis forces). A lot of the war propaganda back then was really a lot of precisely that, propaganda. Rationing commodities, being bombarded with "Buy Government War Bonds" commercials, and just being overloaded in general with the hype is kind of the antithesis of what I like to see. There's a part of me that is more than a little pleased that clueless, lazy hippies can be allowed to roam our sidewalks with signs because while it's silly to watch, it's still a very genuine response. The day we degrade ourselves to overzealous patriotism again is the day I foresee someone in office who will cease the day and take the final steps towards fascism.
What I mean is that generation suffered through the Great Depression. So they knew what it really meant to sacrifice. Plus, no one was "forced" to donate anything. Yeah I'm sure you got made to feel guilty if you didn't, but there were people who were not supportive of WWII. You just don't hear about it in history. Funny thing about history - depends on who writes it for future generations. I'm interested to see what history books say about this period in 60 years.

Of course it was propaganda - and it worked. I wouldn't call that "overzealous patriotism" though. Everyone participated in the effort. Most people knew someone either in the military in combat or you had women taking a role outside the house for the first time and actually being able to have a job. That's what I mean - most everyone supported it in some way. Now, we have the "woe is me" mentality where no one cares about their fellow citizen. I'm not saying we should share everythign or anything like that - and I don't want forced patriotism.

I always say I'd rather see people speak how they really feel - but they should be educated on what they base their opinion on. A lot of people who protest the wars have no idea what is truly going on and they only say "thank you" to us beacuse the media has guilted the country into it after Vietnam. I don't want someone to walk on eggshells around me - be yourself but at least know what you're talking about.
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Old 11-16-2011, 03:34 PM   #7
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This is why I make it my personal goal to not let anyone know I was in the military or been in combat. I didn't fight for anyone in this country. Most people I meet aren't worthy of me risking my life. I did it because my country asked me to and that is the only reason I needed.

I let it slip one time in a communications class that I had been to Afghanistan. The first question I get asked after class comes from this douche bag 18 year old kid. He asks me "What's it like to kill someone?" I just looked him in the eye and walked away.

I could go the rest of my life without anyone knowing where I've been and I would be the happiest (as happy as I can be) person on this earth.
I went and talked to this third grade class during R & R of my first deployment (in 05-06) and a few of those kids were like "So did you kill anyone?" I just said "No" and went to the next kid.

I also recently talked to a couple classes at my old college and those kids could have cares less I was in the Army or that I had graduated from there and been in their shoes. My old teachers asked me more questions than they did. I mean - if I had seen someone who went to college there come back and talk to us, I'd ask them all kinds of questions about what things should I focus on while in college to prepare myself. These kids - it was like "Bueller? Bueller?..."Bueller?" I only went as a favor to my teachers but still. I guess. I wanted to say "College is the easiest four years of your life. Wait until you get in the real world."
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Old 11-16-2011, 04:18 PM   #8
u8MmZFmF

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What I mean is that generation suffered through the Great Depression. So they knew what it really meant to sacrifice. Plus, no one was "forced" to donate anything. Yeah I'm sure you got made to feel guilty if you didn't, but there were people who were not supportive of WWII. You just don't hear about it in history. Funny thing about history - depends on who writes it for future generations. I'm interested to see what history books say about this period in 60 years.

Of course it was propaganda - and it worked. I wouldn't call that "overzealous patriotism" though. Everyone participated in the effort. Most people knew someone either in the military in combat or you had women taking a role outside the house for the first time and actually being able to have a job. That's what I mean - most everyone supported it in some way. Now, we have the "woe is me" mentality where no one cares about their fellow citizen. I'm not saying we should share everythign or anything like that - and I don't want forced patriotism.

I always say I'd rather see people speak how they really feel - but they should be educated on what they base their opinion on. A lot of people who protest the wars have no idea what is truly going on and they only say "thank you" to us beacuse the media has guilted the country into it after Vietnam. I don't want someone to walk on eggshells around me - be yourself but at least know what you're talking about.
"Romanticized" would be the term I would personally use. The Great Depression that you rightly mentioned had a profound affect towards creating a boiling fervor among the masses that allowed many Americans to overlook what seemed like "minor" violations of their individual liberties as well as those of others (Japanese concentration camps, as an example.) I attribute this as much to desperation and false hopes as I do to any other factor. It's hard to overlook much of the same thing was happening with the rise of the Nazi party in Germany, while the circumstances there were the result of a greater level of emotional backlash to even more extreme circumstances. The people then weren't stupid by any means, some did see the writing on the wall and even good, loyal citizens covertly participated in underground bartering of rationed products to ensure their own families got fed. There was a certain naivete (which is just as true with society now as then). If one looks at that era comprehensively, however, American citizens sacrificed much in the way of personal liberties, and a significant percentage of that has also translated to the following generations who inherited that legacy.

Today at least we still enjoy most of our "First Amendment" rights at least, some might say even more frivolously now than it was then. Barring that though, we have regressed a substantial amount in the direction towards fascism as a price to pay for the blind eye we paid to the cumulative violations of our liberties as a free society over the time period we're discussing and the many decades since. That's how tyranny's tend to develop, it's a domino effect, a slippery slope where the government especially will continue to push that envelope in the name of security and being the universal benefactor of its citizens. While often well-intentioned, (even Hitler had positive intentions for the majority of his constituents, the ones who fit into his idea of the Third Reich) the direction continues to be the very same at a very gradual pace. That is the very thing I fear from the World War II fervor, and would not seek again given the option, lemmings are known to run into a cliff eventually, and free-thinking lemmings might get trampled if they attempt to deviate from the course. I feel comfortable in saying any of us are susceptible to the fervor if we're not actively looking to avoid it at all times.
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