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Old 07-04-2011, 09:23 PM   #1
crazuMovies

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Default Marriage Shams in the Military
Military: Sham marriages got Marines housing money

AP – Sun, Jul 3, 2011 CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) — Military officials are charging three California-based Marine corporals with fraud and larceny for entering in a pair of sham marriages to collect housing funding, officials said.

The military alleges that a lesbian couple — one a Marine, the other a civilian — decided to live together off base and wanted to collect the $1,200 housing benefit granted to married Marines.

The female Marine found a male Marine willing to get married, allowing them to collect the housing benefit, and the civilian woman also eventually married a Marine and collected funds, 1st Lt. Maureen Dooley, a spokeswoman at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in San Diego, said Saturday.

The female Marine, Cpl. Ashley Vice, told San Diego's KGTV-TV that she and her partner, Jaime Murphy, were forced to enter sham marriages because the military doesn't provide allowances for unmarried couples and they couldn't afford to live off base without the extra money. She and her partner only wanted to "be a family," Vice said.

"It doesn't matter what their sexual preferences are, if they're violating the law and making fraudulent use of government money, they will be held accountable," Dooley said.

The corporals, assigned to the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing at Camp Pendleton, now face fraud and larceny charges, but more could come later, and the three could have to pay back $75,000 to the military.

The military does not have jurisdiction over the civilian woman, Dooley said, and it was not clear if she would face charges.

Even after the military officially drops its ban against openly gay or lesbian members, same-sex couples, even if married, would still not be eligible because of a federal law defining marriage as between a man and a woman.

Vice told the station she and the other corporals, Jeremiah Griffin and Joseph Garner, could face at least a year in the brig at Miramar, since none of them can afford to pay the government back.

In addition to jail time, Vice said she will likely be demoted in rank from corporal to private. http://news.yahoo.com/military-sham-...125247001.html

While this isn't anything 'new' per se to some of us who've been around the block in the military a few times already, it's funny how these things are enforced...I mean, how does the military question if your marriage is 'legit' or not? Do they accomplish Conjugal Checks in base housing? Do they have a DoD form that you have to fill out every time you have relations? What about joint-spouse assignments where both people are geographically separated by a signficant distance?

Considering the high rate of divorce in the military, I would imagine there would be more focus on that instead....
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Old 07-04-2011, 09:40 PM   #2
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There have been marriage shams going on for ages and more prominent with heterosexual soldiers. Just a couple of years ago, a couple of joes were busted in my unit for the same thing. Their reason was because they were tired of living and dealing with the crap in the barracks. Also, some just to get the extra BAH to pay off the bills.

Seems like this particular situation made headlines because of DOMA and gay marriage rights. Simple news tactics to show the cons in order to get another agenda passed.
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Old 07-04-2011, 09:42 PM   #3
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I hate to burst your bubble, but I believe in the old saying..."If the military would've wanted you to have a spouse, they would have issued you one."
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Old 07-04-2011, 09:43 PM   #4
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I just read the comments in that article and it is full of the same statements that I posted.
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Old 07-04-2011, 11:37 PM   #5
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I hate to burst your bubble, but I believe in the old saying..."If the military would've wanted you to have a spouse, they would have issued you one."
Well they give me the dep rate BAH. So why not get it. The only difference between these Marines and lots of other service members is they're lesbos. Lets make this into a DADT issue.

I'm not saying it is, but i bet it'll get twisted that way. Shitty situation.
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Old 07-04-2011, 11:56 PM   #6
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Okay, but to go back to my original questions, how can the military determine whether or not your marriage is a sham or if it is legit? What are the key factors a commander has to prove when he or she thinks that Airman Snot and Private Parts are really just co-habitating for the money, and not because they're in 'love' or anything?

Although I saw this one army chick the other week who looked like Pee Wee Herman from the neck up, and with the body of a gang-banger below the neck. More tatts than I could (or would want to) count, and wearing overtly male clothing (Polo Shirt and some baggy shorts that went down to her knees). Believe me when I tell you that besides having two X chromosomes, there was nothing else even remotely feminine in nature to this 'woman'. I'd still wouldn't be convinced if DNA testing proved her to be the direct descendant of the Biblical Eve we hear about all the time.

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Old 07-04-2011, 11:57 PM   #7
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Okay, but to go back to my original questions, how can the military determine whether or not your marriage is a sham or if it is legit? What are the key factors a commander has to prove when he or she thinks that Airman Snot and Private Parts are really just co-habitating for the money, and not because they're in 'love' or anything?

Although I saw this one army chick the other week who looked like Pee Wee Herman from the neck up, and with the body of a gang-banger below the neck. More tatts than I could (or would want to) count, and wearing overtly male clothing (Polo Shirt and some baggy shorts that went down to her knees). Believe me when I tell you that besides having two X chromosomes, there was nothing else even remotely feminine in nature to this 'woman'. I'd still wouldn't be convinced if DNA testing proved her to be the direct descendant of the Biblical Eve we hear about all the time.

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Old 07-05-2011, 12:48 AM   #8
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Machine absolutely right. Unless one of the members is silly enough to say I did it for the money how can they tell its a sham? If they did rat themselves out then its thier own faults.
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:00 AM   #9
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I would bet that the folks who marry for the BAH and don't live together (as in these couples) make it easy to spot the scams. Both of these women claim to be married to other people, yet live together and apart from their "spouses". If they lived with the "spouses" it would be difficult, if not impossible, to determine.
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:04 AM   #10
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Okay, but to go back to my original questions, how can the military determine whether or not your marriage is a sham or if it is legit? What are the key factors a commander has to prove when he or she thinks that Airman Snot and Private Parts are really just co-habitating for the money, and not because they're in 'love' or anything?

Although I saw this one army chick the other week who looked like Pee Wee Herman from the neck up, and with the body of a gang-banger below the neck. More tatts than I could (or would want to) count, and wearing overtly male clothing (Polo Shirt and some baggy shorts that went down to her knees). Believe me when I tell you that besides having two X chromosomes, there was nothing else even remotely feminine in nature to this 'woman'. I'd still wouldn't be convinced if DNA testing proved her to be the direct descendant of the Biblical Eve we hear about all the time.

Someone who knew about it may have said something or maybe someone saw the two lesbians off post together and found something suspicious about it? I thought I read in another article what happened but I can't remember for sure.

Honestly sham marriages are constant as people have already said. I think two consenting adults should be able to get married but whatever.

This statement from the article:

The female Marine, Cpl. Ashley Vice, told San Diego's KGTV-TV that she and her partner, Jaime Murphy, were forced to enter sham marriages because the military doesn't provide allowances for unmarried couples and they couldn't afford to live off base without the extra money. She and her partner only wanted to "be a family," Vice said.

Key statement is the military doesn't provide allowance for unmarried couples - any unmarried couples. So you do what other people likely do and you deal with it until you're authorized BAH and live off post. Yeah it sucks.

But what about the people who are still married but they are separated? As in they live miles apart, they don't consider themselves married but one or the other won't sign divorce papers but they each have a new significant other or are dating? So they are in a sense now in a sham marriage even if it started out as real. I've known people who are legally married but because the other won't sign divorce papers, they stay married. But it doesn't stop them from collecting the extra money they still get.

But yes Machine - you make a good question. I think if someone brings it to the attention of the command and they investigate, that's how they may find out if it's a sham. Especially if the people involved admit to it. But if they don't have actual proof without an admission, then they can't really do anything.
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:07 AM   #11
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Actually, it's not that hard to key in on a few things. "Legitimate" marriages will produce a paper trail of stuff like joint bank accounts, insurance where beneficiary is the spouse, KIDS (not that this was any apparent likelihood in this case), mailing address (i.e. both spouses authorized to pick up mail/spouse name added in order to receive mail, etc.), TAXES (most married couples file jointly).

Incidently, ICE (formerly known as the INS) is in the routine business of having couples prove the legitimacy of their marriage; reason being that a foreign-born spouse will only get their Green Card (the "real" one that's good for 10 yrs) after submitting documentation, such as the above-mentioned. How do I know this? It's the boat I am in, w/a Japanese spouse.

These Marines, their true motives notwithstanding, did it wrong.
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:16 AM   #12
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How many male and female Airmen got married to get the hell out of the dorms then lived as roomates until PCS? Compared to the overall number of enlisted folks the percentage is pretty small, but it does happen. Situations like this make the news. Ones that ended careers quietly don't make the news.
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:59 AM   #13
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Actually, it's not that hard to key in on a few things. "Legitimate" marriages will produce a paper trail of stuff like joint bank accounts, insurance where beneficiary is the spouse, KIDS (not that this was any apparent likelihood in this case), mailing address (i.e. both spouses authorized to pick up mail/spouse name added in order to receive mail, etc.), TAXES (most married couples file jointly).

Incidently, ICE (formerly known as the INS) is in the routine business of having couples prove the legitimacy of their marriage; reason being that a foreign-born spouse will only get their Green Card (the "real" one that's good for 10 yrs) after submitting documentation, such as the above-mentioned. How do I know this? It's the boat I am in, w/a Japanese spouse.

These Marines, their true motives notwithstanding, did it wrong.
Overall yes it's wrong if anyone has a sham marriage to get benefits in the military or anywhere but it happens in and out of the military. Anymore it seems marriage is just a business arrangement for some (not all).

However I have to disagree with a few things on what you say makes something a "legitimate" marriage. Not every couple has a joint bank account or kids. My aunt and uncle have zero kids and have been married for a good 20 something years at least. But you would think you would have that person on the insurance and filing taxes together. I thought in the military you had to put your spouse down on your SGLI, etc.

The reason that ICE wants to make sure it's a valid marriage is because they don't want it to be that an American citizen is just trying to get someone citizenship and that's it. So it makes sense to vett that marriage because a lot of people ruin it for the ones who are honestly just wanting to marry someone who is not a citizen.

Anyone can look around the US and find sham marriages. It just depends on if someone gets caught in it.
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:19 AM   #14
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I'm not married, yet, and haven't looked into it seriously, so I ask this with only a little bit of sarcasm; Where in a marriage contract does it say you have to love the person you're marrying? Or even like them? As Your_Name_Here said, there are some lose ends you have to take care of that would make it look like you care about your partner, SGLI, Health Care Proxy, joint tax filing, etc. but really after that what's wrong with two people signing a contract with another person for mutual gain? Thats all a marriage licence is, any significance beyond that is on the individuals.
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:31 AM   #15
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I'm not married, yet, and haven't looked into it seriously, so I ask this with only a little bit of sarcasm; Where in a marriage contract does it say you have to love the person you're marrying? Or even like them? As Your_Name_Here said, there are some lose ends you have to take care of that would make it look like you care about your partner, SGLI, Health Care Proxy, joint tax filing, etc. but really after that what's wrong with two people signing a contract with another person for mutual gain? Thats all a marriage licence is, any significance beyond that is on the individuals.
Well that's true. It's just assumed that people get married because they love each other and want to spend their lives together. At least that was the idea put into everyone's heads.

Honestly I don't see the big deal because it's not like either woman lied to each man they married. They knew what they were getting into. But the regulations say you can't do it so that's why they are in trouble.

All I know is that most of the people I've worked with (mostly guys) in the military when I asked them why they married their wives, most of them had the response of "I did the right thing (i.e. she got pregnant)" or "I was young." Sometimes it's "to get out of the barracks." Because quite honestly, the majority of them cheat on their wives anyway (and female soldiers cheat on their husbands too sometimes).

There are those few who believe in the idea of marriage as more than just a contract. My grandparents still seem in love after all these years. My dad and stepmom are perfect for each other. My younger brother knew his now wife for six months before they got engaged and they seem happy. Hopefully it lasts.

Some marriages are real and are more than just a contract and some aren't. Like you said DH, it's up to the people what they want it to mean.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:17 AM   #16
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Machine absolutely right. Unless one of the members is silly enough to say I did it for the money how can they tell its a sham? If they did rat themselves out then its thier own faults.
I suspect in this case they were doing a DADT investigation and this came to life. In the case of the two idiots in my unit it was because they chose to talk about it in the open IN THE OFFICE. Commander pulled them into the office and read them both the riot act and then read everyone else the riot act. It wasn't until later we all learned why e got a piece of ass chewed. TBH if this particular soldier tried to get married now and had the commander as a witness at his wedding he STILL wouldn't get BAH.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:24 AM   #17
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I'd suspect the reason they got caught was because they got legally married, then lived in separate locations. Two of the "married" folks from different marriages lived in the same address, while the others lived at different addresses. Probably a routine scrub of the recall roster noted the deficiencies and someone asked the right questions.
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:44 AM   #18
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I hate to burst your bubble, but I believe in the old saying..."If the military would've wanted you to have a spouse, they would have issued you one." Ok, that's one viewpoint. Here's one more: If the military did not want you to have spouse, they wouldn't pay you extra to have one.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:11 AM   #19
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Ok, that's one viewpoint. Here's one more: If the military did not want you to have spouse, they wouldn't pay you extra to have one.
They don't pay you more unless the spouse is also your dependent or if you have a dependent such as a child. Granted, you get BAH to live off base, but if you're single you'll get that anyway once you reach a certain rank or the dorms reach a certain capacity.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:13 AM   #20
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To answer the original question, people get caught because they're not as clever as they think they are, they do something stupid, or they blab to the wrong person.
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