[BritneySpearsFun@@@]

John,

You're right about Alan Dawson, he was a great drummer but has an even greater legacy as a teacher. Tony Williams and Joe Labarbera were both students of Alan's. Keith Copeland, who used to teach at the Banff centre (son of Ray Copleland) was also one of his students.

There is a great book by John Ramsay called The Drummer's Complete Vocabulary, as Tought By Alan Dawson.

I think it's interesting to note that while there are alot of great self tought drummers with minimal rudimental skills, the majority of the truly great jazz drummers are extremely well schooled in what I would call American Military style rudimental drumming (wich was a huge part of Alan Dawsons teaching). There are exceptions to this of course.

For me, when I hear alot of younger jazz drummers (and even some older ones) it's often the weakest link in their playing. I think it often gets neglected because people think it will stifle their creativity, or maybe no one teaches it anymore. I remember a drum teacher actually trying to discurage me from practicing rudimental snare drum solos. I think he said "ya, that's fine, if you want to sound like Philly Joe". Um....

I'm not saying chops good/creativity bad, I'm saying if you're going to play jazz drums, you better learn this shit.

Also, I totaly dig those cats you're talking about John. I wouldn't want anyone to think is was cutting them. I was thinking in terms of jazz drumming in specific.