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Old 05-06-2011, 10:00 AM   #36
12ZHeWZa

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
431
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Well by Alan Chapman his implication was that reaching the very first stage of the progress to insight would commence the process of KCHGA and that would (in my vocabulary) make me partially enlightened.

Basically the experience is something like this: Your meditating and watching your breath and your sitting and waiting for something to happen, your waiting, and waiting, BUT as soon you notice your waiting, OR sort of locate your self (as in your very being) and objectify it for the first time then a sort of shift occurs (when you objectify your self for the first time) and the meditation really kicks off.

It was a pretty cool insight. It was required IIRC to occur every time one meditated.

The other one by Buddhaghosa and Pali Commentaries, there's lots of discrepancies so I'll just describe the next two stages. The Cause and Effect stage, well basically what happened was when I noted something, because I noted something something would happen and then I would note that (and then I would have an endless supply of objects to note) and it would get so fast as the stream of.... well whatever just really sped up, and then when I couldn't individually note each thing and the meditation became really frustrating, wacky and screwy with your head then I considered myself to reach Sammasana Nana.

So it's sort of iffy for which Nana you have to reach or pass for Buddhaghosa, but it mostly has to do with the Paccaya Parigraha Nana (cause and effect), so since I diagnosed myself as reaching sammasana nana I would technically meet that requirement. The irony is that I use to Daniel Ingram's criteria to diagnose the nanas and he has crossing the A&P event (something about the 4th nana) as really commencing the process.

Oh well. I also never diagnosed myself as being partially enlightened during the time I was actually practicing this meditation (I practiced it only very little) it's only several years later that diagnosed this (or misdiagnosed this).
I have no idea what you just said - its strange how, within our own circles we develope a foreign language that only others within our circle understand, amongst the budhists, what you said was probably pretty basic, but when you come into the circle of zahids, it goes right over their heads - thats probably how many non muslims feel when they ask a quetion and we respond with a Arabic/Urdhu/english cassarole.

Another question, bro Musafir brought up the islamic emphasis on always having a teacher - does budhism emphasize this as well - and by teacher I dont mean a book, no Muslim would claim his Sheikh is Imam Nawawi who left this world 800 years ago simply because he has all of Imam nawawis writings. In the science of Tazkiya, one who attempts certain things without a guide could end up worse off then they started, is this the same in budhism - or do you guys have a DIY attitude about enlightenment?
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