DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Pakistan: A failed Muslim State or a clever gambler?

**GinaGomesz** · 09-03-2012, 11:21 PM

Does anyone know how Pakistan can retain its sovereignty and possibly be a role model to other countries?

This is a vital priority topic: the very SOVEREIGNTY of Pakistan is in doubt!!!

Yes, 99% Muslim, over 150 million people- but the Muslim Ummah in Pakistan does NOT control it's own SOVEREIGNTY.

To RETAKE control, it MUST expel the occupiers. That means expelling America, closing it's bases, embassy, consulates, expelling all military officials, all military contractors, all CIA/DOD/Nato/UN officers, operatives, assets. (UN affiliated military officials are renowned as spies for America even if they are from countries other than America, such as Sweden, EU, etc.)

As for private Americans in Pakistan, they have to be closely scrutinized. Those with close ties to the government, such as corporate executives, work in proximity with US govt interests without direct govt authority or license. All US military contractors DO have close ties to the DOD, so must be expelled. Companies with sensitive interests, such as energy, electronics, finance, such all be put under scrutiny.

[What is it that Indonesia or Malaysia has that Pakistan doesn't?

Both of these countries have rich natural resources. Malaysia was granted a large share of natural resources for a small population, allowing for similar advantages that European countries like Norways enjoys: tiny population with vast resources.

As well, both countries were under military dictatorships which catered to American interests for decades while developing their economic infrastructure. Pakistan did not enjoy this. Rather, Pakistan's ruling establishment was more renowned for syphoning wealth from the country to Europe and America to serve their selfish, greedy ends (including serving their families, and their minority communities) rather than the greater good. We all know of rich Pakistani families in Britain and America who have enjoyed riches and power for years.
In contrast, Malays are not well known for their syphoning, elitism, etc. to the West. I'm sure it exists, but not the extent as in Pakistan. Rather, more has been reinvested in the two countries for their own profit and benefit, which has translated into benefit for their countries. Hence, mining in Indonesia results in billions for elites, but also jobs and some minor growth. Reinvestment by elites has fostered in Malaysia and Indonesia by ASEA and America in particular through economic liberalism.

[How influential is Pakistan around the world in terms of social political and economic matters? (outside the gulf and middle east)

Is it fair to say that Pakistan is just another failed state but this time a muslim majority failed state whose only gamble is nuclear bomb and that's it.

Pakistan is a failed nationalist enterprise, imho.
America is going about deconstructing it in order to reconstruct it in an image which serves its own regional interests, namely as a gateway for American and Indian access to Central Asia. One of the sayings of Neo Con imperialism in Washington DC is: from crisis/chaos comes opportunity. They image opportunity in destroying Pakistan. Thus, they induce chaos via controlled measures, such as black ops and full spectrum political strategies - not too dissimilar from how communist putschists implemented strategies in Eastern Europe in the early 1900s CE, except with full government coordination.

Pakistan as a nation state will likely NOT survive. Balochistan, Waziristan, Kashmir- are all likely for fragmentation. And the Pakistani political classes- Zardari and his ilk- all stand to ally with and capitulate to America's efforts, profit personally, and retain in power politically until America finds more suitable puppets, as they are expendible.

Unless Pakistan undergoes those drastic measures which I originally mentioned- total dissociation from America (even if it allows American companies to return, but under controlled circumstances)- Pakistan is on a course of its own deconstruction.

BTW, while American Neo Cons say: from crisis/chaos emerges opportunity, Will Durant, the famous Western historian claimed: "civilizations begin with order, grow with liberty, and die with chaos" .

And most certainly, Allah knows best.

09-03-2012, 11:21 PM	#24
GinaGomesz Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 558 Senior Member	Does anyone know how Pakistan can retain its sovereignty and possibly be a role model to other countries? This is a vital priority topic: the very SOVEREIGNTY of Pakistan is in doubt!!! Yes, 99% Muslim, over 150 million people- but the Muslim Ummah in Pakistan does NOT control it's own SOVEREIGNTY. To RETAKE control, it MUST expel the occupiers. That means expelling America, closing it's bases, embassy, consulates, expelling all military officials, all military contractors, all CIA/DOD/Nato/UN officers, operatives, assets. (UN affiliated military officials are renowned as spies for America even if they are from countries other than America, such as Sweden, EU, etc.) As for private Americans in Pakistan, they have to be closely scrutinized. Those with close ties to the government, such as corporate executives, work in proximity with US govt interests without direct govt authority or license. All US military contractors DO have close ties to the DOD, so must be expelled. Companies with sensitive interests, such as energy, electronics, finance, such all be put under scrutiny. [What is it that Indonesia or Malaysia has that Pakistan doesn't? Both of these countries have rich natural resources. Malaysia was granted a large share of natural resources for a small population, allowing for similar advantages that European countries like Norways enjoys: tiny population with vast resources. As well, both countries were under military dictatorships which catered to American interests for decades while developing their economic infrastructure. Pakistan did not enjoy this. Rather, Pakistan's ruling establishment was more renowned for syphoning wealth from the country to Europe and America to serve their selfish, greedy ends (including serving their families, and their minority communities) rather than the greater good. We all know of rich Pakistani families in Britain and America who have enjoyed riches and power for years. In contrast, Malays are not well known for their syphoning, elitism, etc. to the West. I'm sure it exists, but not the extent as in Pakistan. Rather, more has been reinvested in the two countries for their own profit and benefit, which has translated into benefit for their countries. Hence, mining in Indonesia results in billions for elites, but also jobs and some minor growth. Reinvestment by elites has fostered in Malaysia and Indonesia by ASEA and America in particular through economic liberalism. [How influential is Pakistan around the world in terms of social political and economic matters? (outside the gulf and middle east) Is it fair to say that Pakistan is just another failed state but this time a muslim majority failed state whose only gamble is nuclear bomb and that's it. Pakistan is a failed nationalist enterprise, imho. America is going about deconstructing it in order to reconstruct it in an image which serves its own regional interests, namely as a gateway for American and Indian access to Central Asia. One of the sayings of Neo Con imperialism in Washington DC is: from crisis/chaos comes opportunity. They image opportunity in destroying Pakistan. Thus, they induce chaos via controlled measures, such as black ops and full spectrum political strategies - not too dissimilar from how communist putschists implemented strategies in Eastern Europe in the early 1900s CE, except with full government coordination. Pakistan as a nation state will likely NOT survive. Balochistan, Waziristan, Kashmir- are all likely for fragmentation. And the Pakistani political classes- Zardari and his ilk- all stand to ally with and capitulate to America's efforts, profit personally, and retain in power politically until America finds more suitable puppets, as they are expendible. Unless Pakistan undergoes those drastic measures which I originally mentioned- total dissociation from America (even if it allows American companies to return, but under controlled circumstances)- Pakistan is on a course of its own deconstruction. BTW, while American Neo Cons say: from crisis/chaos emerges opportunity, Will Durant, the famous Western historian claimed: "civilizations begin with order, grow with liberty, and die with chaos" . And most certainly, Allah knows best.
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