thanks for the vote of confidence bbb i think this in mark's post is more, much much more. under-appreciated? mark is very well thought of by me and others, and that is clearly expressed. each one in this forum who has read the loo is a scholar on the subject, and i appreciate each one as such. the ra quote in your post is simply an elaborate description of death or brain dead , imo. it's not a lesson in how an electrically active consciousness should achieve an end to work. it's simply stated that conscious activity is work. i'd prefer to hear from mark on his own post.