Right on, boik. Stats don't tell it all. Darrin Erstad is a great example of that.

Maybe he finally found something hes good at...

I agree Erstad is another player who fits in the same mold as jeter. Every great team needs someone like that; the guy who knows what to do in every situation and can handle the pressure when few others can. Thats clutch; thats DJ.

And Im a mets fan....but i dont hate the NYY.

This one is sure to spark a debate...but yes, Barry Bonds.

Plus you said athlete...Vick is one hell of an athlete. But I think you meant sports player so I'm stick with Bonds.

First off, the roids. Anyone who says he's not on them is either the biggest homer ever, or he's just a plain fuckin idiot.

Then you've got the fact that no one pitches to him. The common reponse to this is "look what he does when you do pitch to him." Yeah well, if you let him get you so intimidated, you're gonna get fucked up. His fielding/baserunning is waaaay overrated, and his avg. is high because he doesnt get a chance to do much besides HR (which not to mention he has one of the shortest RF's to hit into ever) or walk.

The last time I check hitting over 700 homeruns is a pretty hard thing to do. So, even if he did do roids' he still had to swing the bat. If they want to take his record away then lets take Ruth and Aaron because they played in a era where the ballparks were smaller, and then take away McGuires because he was a user of roids'. The most overrated player in sports is Tom Brady. He would not have any super bowl wins with out a kicker and defense. Any Qb could win a super bowl with that style of offense and that defense that they had when they won both super bowls.

Keyshawn Johnson. Made out to be great for a number of years and was never close to being great.

As an athelete M Vick is superb. As a football player, he stinks

Let me repeat: Michael Vick = the next Kordell Stewart. Keyshawn is also overrated, but he comes up wih enough good plays to outrank Vick, although it's pretty close. Vick gets more hype.

- Dunn and Duckett are fine. The zone blocking scheme Alex Gibbs runs is far and away the best in the nfl but the lack of talent there prevents it from being run as effieciently as it could be. None the less both Dunn and Duckett are over 4.0 per carry so it cant be as terrible as you say it is. The worst OL this year belongs to NYG. Miami isnt far behind here but its mainly at LT and C where they get beaten badly.

- The Wrs are weak in ATL no question there. Price cant live up to his contract, White hasnt emereged, Finnerean is what he is; a nice 3rd down guy, and Jenkins is still a rookie. There are/were worse though...like Phillys wrs last year, SF this year etc.

- As far as Miami's supporting cast; the wrs are stallions: Booker and Chambers + TE McMichael. Its the OL and lack of a running game that have hurt that offense in addition to the god awful QB play.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teamstats?team=atl

Nope, no one I can think of.

Dude is a phenominal athlete don't get me wrong, but C'MON. Against the Cheifs defense(if you can call it that) you complete 33% of your passes?

Slash #2 for sure!

There are two differences between Bonds and those guys: you rarely see Bonds chase bad pitches, and none of those guys have hit 73 homers in 476 ABs.

And the right field line may be short at 305, but any stadium where the gap is over 400 feet deep should not be considered a total joke. And SBC Park has a 103 park factor for '04, so it's not Coors Field or The Ballpark (120 and 111, respectively).

I have to disagree with you on part of that. He's does see a lot of good pitches. Why? Because he only gets pitched to when he can't be walked. If he can't be walked, they're not gonna throw him junk, they're gonna give him stuff that's at least close. Plus, these guys get so afraid of him that they make more mistakes. And let's face it, a hitter can tell if a pitcher is afraid of making a mistake. But a guy like Schilling, RJ, Clemens, etc. isn't gonna have that problem. More pitches need to grow a sack and just pitch to him...the same for the managers.

I'd reword that from "athlete" to "football player" JayGlo. Noone can deny how good of an athlete he is, but as far as being a QB...he's overrated as hell

He is one of the best fielding LF's of all time. I don't know how you can say he's overrated there. Same thing with the baserunning. You have to remember he's not as young as he used to be. As far as his home field is concerned, I hear it's one of the hardest to hit out in baseball. Granted the only time I watch a game is if its Philly so I don't see him play all that often.

As far as the athletic thing goes. Yeah there are alot of people that are athletic, but that doesn't make them a good athlete.

How can you call Jeter overrated when he's been a mighty big cog in the Yankees' World Series victories?

The greatest players show up when the pressure is at its highest and the spotlight is the brightest.

Gotta disagree with you on this one. And I hate the Yankees.

huh??? you deleted something i wrote because it was a political statement? WTF? i can't even remember what I typed that might have been borderline. i'm not known for posting distasteful stuff. what did I type that warranted a deletion???

hey he did win ST player of the week for punting for the ravins http://www.sports-boards.net/forums/...es/biggrin.png

Yep, Vick is still overrated. I get more than my fair share of people who credit him for the Falcons record and refuse to acknowledge the existence of the Falcons D.

Perhaps another sub 50% completion percentage for under 70 yards, no TDs, another fumble (Leads the NFL in this category) and interceptions will help people realize he's a running back under center.

You mean that he's overrated? If so, I'd have to disagree with you on that. Crumpler is as good as any hype he gets.

I agree about Jeter...he's not overrated, not by a long-shot. In fact, A-Rod is more overrated than Jeter.

As far as the whole average thing goes...I know that walks have no direct effect on average. What I'm saying is that if he was pitched to more, I'm sure his numbers wouldn't be the same because he'll be in different situations.

And I still don't know why they walk Bonds so much, but don't pitch around guys like Pujols, Thome, Ramirez, etc. and so forth.