Did they have an advanced study when you were going to Psychology class about making intelligent, informative posts on an INTERNET forum??

If so, Don't you wish you would have taken it? 555


PS, How many posters on this forum are under 50 years of age??

Been in BKK a few times, for a visa extension, takes 2 or 3 days, Have friends that own homes there and have visited them, But I have seen a lot of ill mannered people there, I have also been other places and have noticed the same amount of manners every where in the country, it get no better with being out of BKK.
So if I have seen very little courtesy does that mean that I just happen to meet the wrong people who were maybe just visiting too? 555

Khaorob is some thing we all need and should adhere to in my young days in London & many cities around the world it was taught at a very young age, bring back the old days. sadly its to late for the west but the east good luck.

What would you know about it, seems that they treated you nice while trying to get all your money, what do you expect when you are laying on the sidewalk in a singlet with a toothpick stricking out of your mouth and never getting sober enough to get off of walking street.
And you can build your own big farang house if you didn't drink up all your money.
But you can't have it in your name anyway. But do save enough to come back as long as you do not stay to long, we do need the injection of your paltry few tourist dollars.http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...lies/brush.gif

But if you are happy with BKK, then for gods sake, stay there if you come again.

Initialy I was agast at some of the things I witnessed.
Picking the nose, sleeping during a meeting, pushing past me at the bank, spitting - I could go on.
http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...lies/brush.gif
But what struck me more was the lack of understanding that many foreigners displayed towards Thais.
Poms refuse to learn the language - why should I? is their attutude
Managers berate office workers in front of others.
Many farangs shout, and swear in public, not to mention the comments they make in public to women passing by.
Inside bars I have seen worse.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but would we (fralangs) do this at home?http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...lies/devil.gif

Would we not be held in contempt? Arrested?http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...es/biggrin.png

I know I have adjustment problems when I return to Australia, particularly my driving - lets not get into a fight here - but needless to say o prefer to pay 100 baht ($3) and keep going. In aussie it's $130 no options

Mute point I suppose.

I love this place, it just takes some adjustment, and in the long run where else could I do what I do here???http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...lies/devil.gif

One last pun, the politicians here are [erceived as bad, righly so. The politicians in Aussie are worse IMHO.http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...s/banghead.gif

SteveSuphan: Let's presume:

i'm in London or Paris! Not speaking a word of the local language and completely lost while looking for the Post Office, a kind local Cockney or Parisian comes up (can hardly speak a word of Thai) and actually walks me there and says, on leaving "Welcome to Europe"!

I'm in New York Walking down a back street I come across a few of the black-skinned looking locals drinking cans of beer and eating chips. One shouts out "Hey, where are you going? please join us for a a beer. By the way do you like American woman? I know a few that would just love you!"

You are in Glasgow/Scotland You leave a bar at 2 O'Clock in the morning completely pished. Outside of the bar you bump into a few of the local lassies. You stare them up and down and after you get told to get lost, you continue harassing them and ask them to go back and sleep with you. A few local lads come up and tell you nicely "I think you should go home, have a good sleep and come back tomorrow"

Best post I've seen in months! http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/images/smilies/clap.gif

I was coming to Thailand before a lot of these folks were born, I do things that I consider courteous that I was taught to do long before most of these folks were born,
not slamming a door in someones face is not something that has anything to do with super stores in Thailand, but it is from being raised to think that the other person is as good as you and to do unto others as you would have them do to you.
The only thing that I have seen here that is considered RESPECT is someone walking in front of people setting down is wieing and crouching down to walk in front of them, when it would have been more respectful to have walked behind.
Do you think it shows respect for 100 motorcycles crowding ahead and around the cars in front at a stoplight and causing a traffic jam when the light changes?
HISO people will show you respect if they think you are one of them and show no respect if they think you are not on par with them, so therefore the lower class do exactly the same thing and there is a hell of a lot more of them.
But we live here and this is noticed all the time, where tourists come, stay a few days and only notice what they consider "Quaint" people and scenery, but we also spend a lot of money living here, have wives and familys that we support and try to teach our young ones how to live peacefully with each other by showing respect as per "The Golden Rule" if you will.
This could go on and step on a lot of toes so I will quit, but it is also a sore spot when a cheap tourist comes here and tells me that because he does not live here that I should also leave, come over here from Jolly old England like his forefathers did to rape and plunder this country, bring automobiles and new things, leave them for the people and never take the time to teach them to operate them or use them safely and then run off.
Well they can go straight to hell.

You have not been to Thailand if those are the places that you have been, anymore than I have been to India because I was in Bombay a few times.
I can not speak of India as if I knew it anymore than you can speak of knowing Thailand because you have been in Pattaya and BKK. But due to this thread being about BKK, you could be correct, but I have only been in BKK a few times in the last 20 years, but what you observed is something I did not.

IMHO.

I have recently visited thailand. Bangkoke and Pattaya. Thai people are really nice and courtious. I never come across any incidence when thai people are trying to show that they are important then you. It is excellent country. After visiting thailand I feel to visit the same again and agian. The most important thing is that they give respect not only to thai people but to all came from all around the world.

You have not been to Thailand if those are the places that you have been, anymore than I have been to India because I was in Bombay a few times. But due to this thread being about BKK, you could be correct, but I have only been in BKK a few times in the last 20 years, but what you observed is something I did not. By your own definition, it seems you haven't really been to BKK, and probably not the best to assess courtesy there.

I was coming to Thailand before a lot of these folks were born... Yep, you were really somethinig before electricity. You probably had to feed the horses before walking to school barefoot in the snow...uphill both ways!

eeew that is totally disgusting!

I agree with Steve here. It is very unfair for a Western based Readers Digest to do such a worldwide survey with the same criteria. We have all been brought up by different groups of people with different values. What is right and proper to us is wrong to other people. What we see as good manners others see as bad. We should never judge people by our own values.

I think one of the things that I learned early on in my backpacking career was a sensitivity to values of people from a different culture to my own. Visiting so many different countries certainly opened my eyes and I never saw things in the same way again.

For example, when I first arrived in China over ten years ago I was shocked at what I saw as disgusting behaviour. People had the habit of blocking one of their nostrils and then blowing the contents of the other onto the ground. I started to think that all Chinese people were uncivilized. However, after I talked to a university professor about this, I soon changed my mind. He made it clear to me that in turn they too found the Western habit of blowing our nose into a handkerchief and then putting that soiled piece of cloth into our pocket, as equally disgusting. It kind of made sense. In fact, while I was in China I blew my nose the Chinese way (albeit more discreetly). And then when I went on to my next country a few months later I again adapted my ways.

Now that I am in Thailand, I do things the Thai way. I don't put my feet up on the seats in the train. I duck my head as I walk past my elders. I take off my shoes when I enter small shops in the country. However, I also keep the Western habits I consider good. I open doors for other people. I say thank you to the bus driver. I hold the door of the elevator open to let other people off first.

I am quite certain that this reader's digest survey is very wrong. It puts Mumbai in India the most rude city. (It could have been Delhi in my perception though). In Mumbai (which is not close to Thailand in politeness maybe) last year when the floods hit the city there was no case of theft or exploitation. Auto Rickshaws took people over many kms through the water and did not take money. People opened doors in their houses for people to sleep without real discrimination. Offices were opened for shelters and much more. Women were escorted from street to street, with one man handing her over to the next like a relay until she reached home.

These same people will not keep the door open or say a quick thank you to strangers because they do not sense ownership of their situation and hence are shy - for a better word - even if their hearts are eager to connect. These cities are full of people who came to someone 'else's system'.

Thailand is actually far better in this aspect, in connection with foreigners especially, because I feel they are much more independent in their mind and culture vis-a-vis the west and western-way. So, they act with will and free reflex.

So, I think.

well I just do not see where the "Golden Rule" should not apply to everyone.

That seems "Common Courtesy" should prevale, consideration is always right, if you do not want someone jumping the line or letting a door slam in your face when you have your hands full of packages is considered common courtesy then so be it. But then everyone will be classed as a drunk farang, if you see nothing wrong with letting someone look at the bottom of your shoes or feet then why should it be wrong?? seems to me like Steve is talking about consideration of someone else' feelings..

My understanding from the initial post was that this survey was conducted by Thai reporters for the Sansara Thai edition of Reader's Digest. However, that may not be the case; perhaps the Thai editors of the Sansara Thai edition are merely commenting on the survey, which was in fact conducted by western-based journalists using western standards of courtesy (as opposed to charity, empathy, selflessness, altruism, etc. and possibly other values discussed in this thread distinct from courtesy). Who is to know? Either way, the reporters prepared the survey and article to address their target audience.

Living here is a two-edged sword. When the lady with the restaurant outside your house sweeps your porch for no reason, it's nice. When people trample over you to get into the BTS, it's not so nice.

One of the things I've observed, and seen described in scholarly articles (Holmes, Tantongtavy, et. al), is that Thais seem to have at least three distinct levels of courtesy, and that the level of courtesy they use depends upon the group that the Thai places the other person into. Whereas westerners, myself included, tend to treat everyone with essentially the same level of courtesy, Thais may not. Number 1 is the family group, whose members get the most courtesy and respect. Number 2 is the group that the Thai must interact with, such as officials, customers, etc. who get a different level, but still quite high (much higher than I would ever give to an official in the US, that's for sure). Number 3, is strangers, people who don't have anything to do with the Thai person. Here's the big difference that westerners, or at least I, perceive; this group gets essentially NO courtesy or respect. People in this group are anonymous to the Thai - they simply don't exist. So the apparent lack of courtesy may be because the Thai person simply doesn't even register the presence of the other person!

I've found that when I'm a complete stranger to a Thai, I don't expect any courtesy at all, and I've adapted to it. But, if I can get into the Thai person's vision, if I get on the Thai person's "radar", so to speak, and into that 2nd group, then I will actually receive a fair bit of courtesy, perhaps even more than I would back home.

From my experiences, I disagree. I've generally been afforded courtesy and respect from that 3rd level of closeness (with total strangers). I've waited for hours out in the middle of no where waiting to fill up a shared taxi to travel somewhere...and when it was finally ready to travel, I got the best seat regardless of others waiting, too. I got lost on a motorboke and as a rain shower hit, a family waved me in to their home...fed me, and gave me a sarong to wear as my clothes dried. I could go on and on.

I understand what you're saying Pailin - nice things like that happen to me all the time too. That's what I meant by appearing on a Thai person's "radar". I've made a connection...and once that happens, I seem to gain entrance into that 2nd group. Then I am usually treated with MORE courtesy than I would expect. I view this differently than "common courtesy", and feel it crosses into the realm of empathy, kindness, compassion, or whatever.

When I refer to strangers, maybe the more accurate term would be "passersby" - people who don't have any relationship with the other person whatsoever and don't have any expectation of having one, e.g., a person cutting in front of you at 7-eleven. To me, it sounds like this was the type of interaction analyzed in the poll - completely anonymous interactions between passersby.

Of course it could be me. If you can get a Thai person to hold the door open for you - it's never happened to me once in 4 years - than you're a better person than I. Maybe I need to improve my grooming...lol.http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/imag...lies/brush.gif

Yea...then I think it goes back to cultural expectations. They don't hold the door open for me at 7-11, but they greet every person who enters or leaves...and despite how positively rote that is, we sure don't do it in my neck of farangland. At my 7-11's they're looking to make sure I'm not about to hold the place up.

we have live in a discourteous world for quite sometime already only now we are noticing it.curse the reader's digest for bringing it up, shattering all the tranquilities.huh?