[hacyOrgachbic]

The whole thinking behind the change for next year was: Cost, complexity and speed down.

Lets have a betting contest:

1. How much time difference will there be btw the 2010 WRCar and the 2011 model per km SS in Sweden and in GB - Just to see the development ?

2. What year will the 1.6T WRC be quicker than the 2010 2.0T model ?

[LarryG1978]

Hi Sulland.

My guesses

1. 2 to 3 seconds a KM slower approx for the first few events.

2. Before 2011 is completed, I think the 1.6 wrc's will be just about getting to the same speed as 2 litre wrc's.

Good topic and lets keep this topic alive so we can check how things are after each event in 2011. Lets hear everyone elses guess

[RerRibreLok]

I was thinking nearer 1.5s/km slower in Sweden, and 1s/km slower in GB.
1.6T will be as quick by mid 2012 I think.

[ZZtop]

Hi Sulland.

My guesses

1. 2 to 3 seconds a KM slower approx for the first few events.

2. Before 2011 is completed, I think the 1.6 wrc's will be just about getting to the same speed as 2 litre wrc's.

Good topic and lets keep this topic alive so we can check how things are after each event in 2011. Lets hear everyone elses guess

2-3 sec slower means that those cars are as slow as S2000. This is no way possible!
My prediction is 0,5 - 1 sec per km slower. By the end of this season or during 2011 new WRCars are equal with 2.0 Turbo.

[Glipseagrilia]

2-3 sec slower means that those cars are as slow as S2000. This is no way possible!
My prediction is 0,5 - 1 sec per km slower. By the end of this season or during 2011 new WRCars are equal with 2.0 Turbo.

+1.

[LarryG1978]

Good point about my 2-3 secs slower, as like pointed out. The S2000 are like that and 1.6T are quicker than S2000.

Another point (3)

3. How much will the 1.6 T wrcars sell for in 2011? compared to what 2 litre WRCars sold for when they were current.

I know not a world rally car. But can we add in discussion of 2011 R4 to 2010 GpN too as point 4

4.. How much quicker per KM will the 2011 R4 rally cars be than 2010 GpN ?

If everyone follows the numbers when answering so we can see a clear layout to follow throughout 2011 in this topic. Nice topic Sulland

[GutleNus]

WRC 1,6t will be 0,5 - 1 sec @ the beginning of the year, @ the end they will be equal.
R4 will be ~ 0,5 sec quicker (without knowing the final tech.regs).

[indartwm]

WRC 1,6t will be 0,5 - 1 sec @ the beginning of the year, @ the end they will be equal.
R4 will be ~ 0,5 sec quicker (without knowing the final tech.regs).

Based on test reports(not 100% reliable but anyway) with comparison between current wrc and 1,6 than on snow and gravel 0,1-0,3s/k FASTER and on tarmac 0,2-0,5s slower.........

[ZZtop]

Based on test reports(not 100% reliable but anyway) with comparison between current wrc and 1,6 than on snow and gravel 0,1-0,3s/k FASTER and on tarmac 0,2-0,5s slower.........

Wowww, I did not want to be too positive about my predictions, but if this is true, then I'm more keen on seeing these little beasts in Sweden.

[HedoShoodovex]

Henning Solberg told me after his test in the Fiesta WRC(early test) that it was not much different from the 07/08 spec Focus he was driving.. But it was more nervous and fun to drive...

[pataagusata]

i expect to be just little tenths slower the new wrc in first half season,and not in all events.Also expect at fast rallies to be equal very early.
Does anybody know if in Sweden we are going to have exactly same ss like previous years to have a good basis for conclusions/comparisons?

[gymnAnemoe]

Depends on which rally.

In sweden up to 1 sec slower. And Finland also maybe 0,75 sec slower. Because they are very fast rallies and the 1,6T engine don´t have the torque to get same speed at 6th gear.

Then in some slower events maybe midseason equal.

At the end of the year it will be slightly faster.....

[pataagusata]

Depends on which rally.

In sweden up to 1 sec slower. And Finland also maybe 0,75 sec slower. Because they are very fast rallies and the 1,6T engine don´t have the torque to get same speed at 6th gear.

Then in some slower events maybe midseason equal.

At the end of the year it will be slightly faster.....

I expect quite the opposite.Slow rallies need torque,and fast rallies power.

[soyclocky]

I expect quite the opposite.Slow rallies need torque,and fast rallies power.

IMHO I agree with that: I expect less difference in slow rallyes than in fast ones. Maybe Mirek or OldF give us some interesant conclusions

[gymnAnemoe]

IMHO I agree with that: I expect less difference in slow rallyes than in fast ones. Maybe Mirek or OldF give us some interesant conclusions

That was what I meant. Bigger diff in Sweden and Finland and less diff in slower rallies. At the end of season maybe 1,6T are even faster.

[pataagusata]

That was what I meant. Bigger diff in Sweden and Finland and less diff in slower rallies. At the end of season maybe 1,6T are even faster.

We dont mean the same as you.Quite different at all.

[intisgunkas]

My guess is 0,4-0,8 sec/km (depending on the type of rally) in the beginning. By the end of season half of that. During 2010 2011WRC will catch up with 2010WRC.

Juho Hänninen won N4 in NORF with Skoda both 2009 and 2010. In 2009 he was 10th overall and was 2,48 sec/km slower than the winner. In 2010 he was 9th overall and 1,76 sec/km (0,72 sec/km faster than 2009) slower than the winner. Does this improvement tell something about the improvements of the S2000 cars?

Patrik Flodin with Subaru won the traditional N4 in 2009 (13th overall) and he was 3,48 sec/km (1 sec/km compared to Juho) slower than the winner. In 2010 the winner was Ott Tänak (18th overall, more S2000 in 2010) and he was 2,97 sec/km (1,21 sec/km compared to Juho) slower than the winner.

I expect the gap will be bigger for 2011WRC in rallies where there is more acceleration from low speed (tight corners, junctions and hairpins). These kinds of rallies prefer cars with more torque like the 2010WRC.

[Snitiendumurn]

My guess is 0,4-0,8 sec/km (depending on the type of rally) in the beginning. By the end of season half of that. During 2010 2011WRC will catch up with 2010WRC.

Juho Hänninen won N4 in NORF with Skoda both 2009 and 2010. In 2009 he was 10th overall and was 2,48 sec/km slower than the winner. In 2010 he was 9th overall and 1,76 sec/km (0,72 sec/km faster than 2009) slower than the winner. Does this improvement tell something about the improvements of the S2000 cars?

Patrik Flodin with Subaru won the traditional N4 in 2009 (13th overall) and he was 3,48 sec/km (1 sec/km compared to Juho) slower than the winner. In 2010 the winner was Ott Tänak (18th overall, more S2000 in 2010) and he was 2,97 sec/km (1,21 sec/km compared to Juho) slower than the winner.

I expect the gap will be bigger for 2011WRC in rallies where there is more acceleration from low speed (tight corners, junctions and hairpins). These kinds of rallies prefer cars with more torque like the 2010WRC.

Hey OldF, i think you make a very good estimation about next year's WRC speed. I think you mean that by the end of 2011, the new 2011WRC cars will match the 2010 2.0L WRC cars? I also agree with you on matters of slower rally's, where you need more torque to come out of slow corners.

[indartwm]

My guess is 0,4-0,8 sec/km (depending on the type of rally) in the beginning. By the end of season half of that. During 2010 2011WRC will catch up with 2010WRC.

Juho Hänninen won N4 in NORF with Skoda both 2009 and 2010. In 2009 he was 10th overall and was 2,48 sec/km slower than the winner. In 2010 he was 9th overall and 1,76 sec/km (0,72 sec/km faster than 2009) slower than the winner. Does this improvement tell something about the improvements of the S2000 cars?

Patrik Flodin with Subaru won the traditional N4 in 2009 (13th overall) and he was 3,48 sec/km (1 sec/km compared to Juho) slower than the winner. In 2010 the winner was Ott Tänak (18th overall, more S2000 in 2010) and he was 2,97 sec/km (1,21 sec/km compared to Juho) slower than the winner.

I expect the gap will be bigger for 2011WRC in rallies where there is more acceleration from low speed (tight corners, junctions and hairpins). These kinds of rallies prefer cars with more torque like the 2010WRC.

This is exactly the reason at least one of the manufactorers is slower specifically on tarmac, due to the reason that there is so much less torque when starting from serpos(hairpins). On faster smoother sections the higher reving engines actually suit quit good!
The handling improvements due to shorter body and wider wheelbase combined with an almost equal amount of horsepower and lower min.weight leads to the fact that the difference isn`t at all dramatic compared to the current 2,0 WRC at least not in a negative way..

[intisgunkas]

Hey OldF, i think you make a very good estimation about next year's WRC speed. I think you mean that by the end of 2011, the new 2011WRC cars will match the 2010 2.0L WRC cars? I also agree with you on matters of slower rally's, where you need more torque to come out of slow corners.

Hello WWBROE,

Actually I meant 2012. By the end of 2011 I predict the gap will be halve compared to the beginning of 2011.

I just listened to the interview of Juha Kankkunen and he said just the opposite.