[loikrso]

I believe the Web is being royally shafted by red bull, not only because Horner has been undermining him with references to the possibility of signing Hamilton, but more importantly Web's car seems to have constant problems during a race.

Today, the Vet's car had Kers at the start, Web's failed at the start, after Vet pushed out to a decent lead he radioed in asking if he should use his Kers the answer Negative-negative-negative (Why? it was working wasn't it?) after all up until that radio message he didn't complain it wasn't working.

At that point all the other teams informed their drivers that R/B' had a KERS failure, that was of course until Hamilton was closing on Vet and R/B needed to change Vets tyres, at that point Vets Kers miraculously began to function again, and he put in several fast laps changed tyres and got back out still in the lead, whilst Web was circulating with over 30 kilos of useless extra weight.

This is the second race that I have smelt a rat with regard to R/B and Web, if similar things just seem to happen again in China it will confirm it my worst suspicions, and that is R/B are giving preference to Vet, to such an extent they are willing to actively sabotage Web's race.

PS I am quite aware I will be accused of being a conspiracy theorist, my answer is just look at the facts, then watch the post race interview with Web on the BBC.

Regards scaliwag.

[Lolita Palmer]

It is resembling the eerie problems which sometimes Barrichello had in Ferrari. But is it and, in the case of RB, was it just an ill fortune or hint of something more sinister? The truth is that we'll never know.

[OrefZorremn]

Huh, possibility of signing Hamilton? That was just when McLaren was struggling in winter tests and journalists started asking questions. So Horner answers to them and makes some fun. Now to reality - Hamilton will stay in McLaren for 2012, no question.

When Webber had zero car failures last year at RBR, people were still complaining about "favouring". Whatever is happening, nothing will silence the sceptics. All in all - RBR may concentrate more on Vettel, but suggestions of sabotage are on most occasions indeed nothing more than conspiracy theories. There is WCC to play for as well. And in terms of pace Vettel would have beaten Webber also without those car problems, so what's the benefit?

[loikrso]

It is resembling the eerie problems which sometimes Barrichello had in Ferrari. But is it and, in the case of RB, was it just an ill fortune or hint of something more sinister? The truth is that we'll never know.

F, cant disagree with your analysis, the only difference I can see is that at Ferrari they were quite open about their preference of a first and second driver, however R/B have always insisted they give equal treatment, and equal machinery to both drivers, I believe they did last year, however my feeling is that has changed this year.

BTW I understand Web was resigned for one year only, whilst Vet has resigned for several years, if true why would that be?

Regards scaliwag

[steevyjeors]

F, cant disagree with your analysis, the only difference I can see is that at Ferrari they were quite open about their preference of a first and second driver, however R/B have always insisted they give equal treatment, and equal machinery to both drivers, I believe they did last year, however my feeling is that has changed this year.

BTW I understand Web was resigned for one year only, whilst Vet has resigned for several years, if true why would that be?

Regards scaliwag

So do you think that with McLaren snapping at their heels in terms of raw pace yet managing to conserve their tyres better Red Bull would try to slow Webber and sacrifice their WCC to make some kind of point? How many millions of dollars do you think are involved?

Webber has had problems especially conserving his tyres. He also had a suspension problem in Oz. Over more races he'll do better. There is no conspiracy.

[loikrso]

Huh, possibility of signing Hamilton? That was just when McLaren was struggling in winter tests and journalists started asking questions. So Horner answers to them and makes some fun. Now to reality - Hamilton will stay in McLaren for 2012, no question.

When Webber had zero car failures last year at RBR, people were still complaining about "favouring". Whatever is happening, nothing will silence the sceptics. All in all - RBR may concentrate more on Vettel, but suggestions of sabotage are on most occasions indeed nothing more than conspiracy theories. There is WCC to play for as well. And in terms of pace Vettel would have beaten Webber also without those car problems, so what's the benefit?

Jens, thanks for the reply, however true to form you don't refute my post with any facts, you just use the strawman reply.

people were still complaining about "favouring". Whatever is happening, nothing will silence the sceptics. All in all - RBR may concentrate more on Vettel, but suggestions of sabotage are on most occasions indeed nothing more than conspiracy

Ok who were the people complaining about "favoring"? and who are the skeptics you enter into your post? please give us a link.


And in terms of pace Vettel would have beaten Webber also without those car problems, so what's the benefit?

Ok, What do you base that statement on, please give us a link, because that statement is nothing more than supposition on your part, if the Web had the same machinery as Vet we could have witnessed a race between equals, let the best man win, but we didn't because Web was loaded with 30 extra kilos of useless of weight.

Regards scaliwag

[OrefZorremn]

People complaining about favouring can be found from various threads during 2010, as you probably were around at that time.

Okay, I suppose Vettel would have beaten Webber, because firstly he outqualified him (this does certainly make things easier) and also Webber seems harder on those vastly deteriorating tyres, having made one more pitstop than Vettel both in Australia and Malaysia.

What kind of facts would you like? Any kind of sabotaging theory is far from facts anyway.

As for the lengths of contracts - well, Vettel is much younger and has many more years left in him. Button got also longer contracts than Barrichello in Honda. Webber got a 2-year-deal for 2007, while DC got only a 1-y-deal IIRC. And so on. Signing up Webber until the end of 2014 like they have done with Vettel wouldn't make much sense at this moment.

[Janarealiti]

Jens, thanks for the reply, however true to form you don't refute my post with any facts, you just use the strawman reply.

Where are the facts in a conspiracy theory?

[Hpdovoxm]

2 races in and we're already saying that Webber is being shafted by RB, if after 2 races the pendulum swings around will we be saying that Vettel is being shafted?

Wake me when it's 3 or 4 races to go.......

[Janarealiti]

2 races in and we're already saying that Webber is being shafted by RB, if after 2 races the pendulum swings around will we be saying that Vettel is being shafted?

Wake me when it's 3 or 4 races to go.......

Exactly. I have no doubt that Vettel better represents the sort of driver Red Bull as a company would rather see winning in one of its cars, and that this manifests itself in certain ways, but some of the accusations seem far of the mark.

[Hpdovoxm]

Exactly. I have no doubt that Vettel better represents the sort of driver Red Bull as a company would rather see winning in one of its cars, and that this manifests itself in certain ways, but some of the accusations seem far of the mark.

Maybe these people subscribe to the American ideals of "freedom" and "rights", perhaps Webber has the right to win, regardless of how well he performs on the weekend?

[Starichok]

Either two races of bad luck or theres something smelly going on.

Soon the team will be able to run with Vettel as he's leading the points so comfortably. Well orchestrated.

If this happens again in China the it's tin foil hat time.

I just want to see my driver given the same chance as his team mate and two races in it still hasn't happened. Be it by bad luck or something more than that I don't know, but it's not good enough for a professional outfit to have such issues.

Webber was given a car with quali and mixed it..... a fantastic and close quali for all involved. Pity the race was left lout for one driver. But the team still bags a handful of WCC points.

Maybe with Macca so close this race RBR may feel they really need two car in the next race.

Oops, I said id save my tin foil hat for China didn't I?

[Sarbrienna]

With Seb's pace I get the impression Webbo is a bit like Damon Hill in his last year in F1: a bit languid, retirement running through his mind

[RIjdrVs3]

Webber was on the same lap time as Seb in qualifying untill the last corner when Webber admited he fluffed the exit which cost him the 2 tenths.

In the race, the start was **** which was at least 50% kers fault, I can accept his getaway wasn't great which may have cost him a position or two, but not 7! But once he got underway, I thought he drove an excellent race and clearly the car was working well other then the kers problem.

[Starichok]

Helmut Marko said Webber had Kers. Then Webber said he didn't. Then Marko said well maybe he didnt, but can we go to the next question please.

Further into the race they told Seb not to use his Kers..... and a lap later they noted on the BBC that he was using Kers. Either they were trying to play up the McLaren to get them to chase or were trying to play "oh yeah, well both cars had Kers problems.... Vettel just handled it better".

The whole bloody thing stinks if you ask me. I'm starting to think they're trying to tarnish Mark so he doesn't get a drive at McLaren or Ferrari next if seats become available.

[Starichok]

With Seb's pace I get the impression Webbo is a bit like Damon Hill in his last year in F1: a bit languid, retirement running through his mind

Explain.... I would LOVE to hear it.

[urbalatte]

BTW I understand Web was resigned for one year only, whilst Vet has resigned for several years, if true why would that be?

Webber has been signing 1 yr contracts w/ RB for a number of yrs now - it is his preference as he can stay in a competitive car right until when he decides to retire.

As for all the 'tin foil, RB damaging their driver's opportunities' well seems like clutching at straws really. Australian's love MW.....well most of us seem to - i've never been a fan but despite that - fact remains that MW pushes his machinery too hard, you can say what you want but given the number of mechanical failures he has had over the last what 9 seasons and w/ 3 different manufacturers (well 2 really since Jag and RB have the same background) that isn't all 'bad luck' or conspiracy theorist.

And Vettel didn't ask about using the KERS - he asked them to repeat the msg which was radioed (at least get the facts correct for a conspiracy theory) to which it was confirmed negative - RB have had issues w/ their KERS system all summer and so I doubt that they would be putting a win at risk by getting him to not use it - why? extra weight, slower car.....

RB want to win both titles again and the best way of achieving that is to have both cars finishing up the front. Webber just doesn't have the talent or speed or Vettel and so struggles to match him - next ppl will say that Webber was given dodgy rear tyres in Korea last yr to prevent him from staying in the title fight

[elektikaka]

RB want to win both titles again and the best way of achieving that is to have both cars finishing up the front. Webber just doesn't have the talent or speed or Vettel and so struggles to match him - next ppl will say that Webber was given dodgy rear tyres in Korea last yr to prevent him from staying in the title fight

C'mon Aussie, I got some tin foil for your hat!

Mark just isn't performing IMO, and it isn't the first time. He can impress at times, but at other times he just doesn't have it in him. Actually today he had a very good day when you factor in the positions he lost on the start due to KERS. Sebastian and a couple others had great days.

Great > Good

[Starichok]

Webber has been signing 1 yr contracts w/ RB for a number of yrs now - it is his preference as he can stay in a competitive car right until when he decides to retire.

As for all the 'tin foil, RB damaging their driver's opportunities' well seems like clutching at straws really. Australian's love MW.....well most of us seem to - i've never been a fan but despite that - fact remains that MW pushes his machinery too hard, you can say what you want but given the number of mechanical failures he has had over the last what 9 seasons and w/ 3 different manufacturers (well 2 really since Jag and RB have the same background) that isn't all 'bad luck' or conspiracy theorist.

And Vettel didn't ask about using the KERS - he asked them to repeat the msg which was radioed (at least get the facts correct for a conspiracy theory) to which it was confirmed negative - RB have had issues w/ their KERS system all summer and so I doubt that they would be putting a win at risk by getting him to not use it - why? extra weight, slower car.....

RB want to win both titles again and the best way of achieving that is to have both cars finishing up the front. Webber just doesn't have the talent or speed or Vettel and so struggles to match him - next ppl will say that Webber was given dodgy rear tyres in Korea last yr to prevent him from staying in the title fight

Next people will say that the Piquet Junior crash wasn't an accident and he did it on purpose.

[Starichok]

C'mon Aussie, I got some tin foil for your hat!

Mark just isn't performing IMO, and it isn't the first time. He can impress at times, but at other times he just doesn't have it in him. Actually today he had a very good day when you factor in the positions he lost on the start due to KERS. Sebastian and a couple others had great days.

Great > Good

So because his Kers didn't work on the start he isn't as good as Seb? Even though there was a couple tenths between them in what was a great quali session.

Honestly, if Sebs car had no Kers off the start he would have DNF'd the race imo. Boy has little race craft. Can run away at the front but can he race from behind? Webber cam from 10th to 4th and without Kers and DRS at the end almost snuck a podium.

Btw I consider working from 10th to 4th in a non-Kers car better than running out front all day with nothing to do. Just my opinion. So what you call good I call Great.

I think it's harsh saying that Webber isn't performing when so far this year the team have given him a car in Australia which had issues and then a start in Malaysia without Kers.

I would expect a LOT more insight and dissection from people on a Formula 1 forum.