[uneniaPhenits]

Link

Mostly concerning the part of the article from about halfway down.

I'm rather concerned that certain colour schemes could bite the bullet in future thanks to anti-tobacco campaigners. Let's face it, if you see a black and gold F1 car and that makes you want to buy cigarettes, I'm afraid it's you with the problem, not the F1 team itself.

And of course, if this set the precedent, then it's goodbye to the red and white chevron, sayonara to anything yellow and black. Heck, you could even argue multiple blues could go thanks to numerous Ligier and Bennetton main sponsor connections.

If anything colour scheme associated should go, then make it the obvious culprit: Philip Morris. Their not-very-stealthy-at-all barcodes and other brand covering schemes are more damaging than a black and gold car. Your thoughts on the subject?

[ReggieRed]

Slammer , I'm here in Canada , and I haven't heard any grumblings about this so far .

From the way they have dealt with liveries in past years , allowing the red chevron , and then the barcode on Ferrari cars , I wouldn't be too worried about this .

That said , the anti-tobacco lobby is strong here .
Many stand shivering outside with thier addictions , as pneumonia added to emphysema and lung cancer solves the problem .

[russianstallian]

if you see a black and gold F1 car and that makes you want to buy cigarettes.....

Would that not have been the original point behind the JPS Lotus?

[yWleIJm4]

And of course, if this set the precedent, then it's goodbye to the red and white chevron, sayonara to anything yellow and black. Heck, you could even argue multiple blues could go thanks to numerous Ligier and Bennetton main sponsor connections.

That's scaremongering. What matters here is not merely the colour scheme, but the *pattern* and *intent behind it*. "Lotus" Renault are directly and intentionally mimicking the late-70s/early-80s Lotus livery IN TOTAL, and those Lotuses only ran in that colour scheme because a group of tobacco merchants paid them to. Ergo, they are effectively reviving the JPS sponsorship even without a penny changing hands.

You'll note that last year's very yellow & black Renault, a similar homage to a past non-tobacco paint job (Renault's early 80s scheme in their own corporate colours) raised nary/an eyebrow in Canada even if it shared colours with the late-90s tobacco-sponsored Jordan.

If anything colour scheme associated should go, then make it the obvious culprit: Philip Morris. Their not-very-stealthy-at-all barcodes and other brand covering schemes are more damaging than a black and gold car.

PM should indeed withdraw their poisoned claws from Ferrari. The "problem" with Canada pressing them comes from the facts that (a) red & white (albeit a darker red) are historically associated with Ferrari going back to before the sponsorship era; and (b) Santander are also associated with bright red & white...

[Annewsded]

Although they deny it, it *is* a copy of the JPS Lotus. But that was run how many years ago now? I suspect many won't even realise.

[yWleIJm4]

Although they deny it, it *is* a copy of the JPS Lotus. But that was run how many years ago now? I suspect many won't even realise.

Well, that was TF's face-saving excuse for going back to green/yellow - that he hadn't realised JPS was still a live brand and using those colours.

And the law seems to be deliberately framed to exclude "I suspect many won't even realise" as a defence. As long as *one* person in Canada makes the link, there's a potentially actionable case there. Of course "potentially" doesn't have to translate into action - the Canadians aren't obliged to prosecute every case, and even if they were, LRGP could just remove the gold strips for that one race to get round it, leaving a black car with gold sponsor-stickers.

[Annewsded]

I can see their point. But as far as I know Renault are not in receipt of any money from the owners of JPS? Which has to count for something.

Although I disagree with the premise, if that's Canadian law, then that's that. There's nothing to stop them running a different livery in Canada..

[kennyguitar]

So a black car with gold lettering is illegal simply because a single particular brand of cigarettes is also sold in a black package with gold lettering?


Can The canadian govenment prove that the team is receiving financing from Imperial Tobacco and subliminally advertizing cigarettes. Of course not, as that is NOT the case. IS IT? Maybe if there hadn't been a 25 year break since that livery was actually last linked with a cigarette brand and Imperial Tobacco had been proven to be sponsoring the Lotus Renault team, I might say there was some manner of a case, but it's just BS. I suppose I can't have a baby blue and white car either? Or a red and white car? or a yellow car? or a white car? Or a silver and black car?

Wasn't Canada going to impose a law banning ANY branding of cigarette packaging whatsoever? Everyone would have to sell generically packaged cigarettes with a simple name on the package?


Yet another case of liberal f-tards screwing with peoples lives.

[viawbambutt]

They aren't being paid by a tobacco company for that livery, so as far as I am concerned, any correlation with tobacco branding is purely coincidental and unintentional, and the Canadian government should find something better to blow taxpayers money on.

[yWleIJm4]

So a black car with gold lettering is illegal simply because a single particular brand of cigarettes is also sold in a black package with gold lettering?

No, a black car designed to evoke a JPS fag packet is illegal.

Can The canadian govenment prove that the team is receiving financing from Imperial Tobacco and subliminally advertizing cigarettes.

Financing isn't required. Given that big companies (not just tobacco, look up "Hollywood accounting" some time. Or the company structure of F1's own holding companies post-CVC takeover) have a habit of deliberately obfuscating their accounts until they show that black is white, they went for the nuclear option and banned anything with a clear & obvious VISUAL link and any sort of trail to go with it. In this case, LRGP -> Try to copy 70s Lotus -> 70s Lotus design paid for and designed by 70s JPS -> JPS still use the same basic design/colour scheme today.

I suppose I can't have a baby blue and white car either? Or a red and white car? or a yellow car? or a white car? Or a silver and black car?

Sure you can, so long as you don't copy specific designs from the packaging.

Wasn't Canada going to impose a law banning ANY branding of cigarette packaging whatsoever? Everyone would have to sell generically packaged cigarettes with a simple name on the package?

They aren't being paid by a tobacco company for that livery, so as far as I am concerned, any correlation with tobacco branding is purely coincidental and unintentional,...

It's a direct, INTENTIONAL copy of a livery JPS designed and paid for to evoke their fag packets. If LRGP didn't realise that, they're morons.

[enteltcheft]

No, a black car designed to evoke a JPS fag packet is illegal.

Heaven help Classic Team Lotus (the real-link-back-to-the-past-Team-Lotus) then

[CoenceLomneedtrue]

Heaven help Classic Team Lotus (the real-link-back-to-the-past-Team-Lotus) then

Back to the past, perhaps, but interestingly the "links" page includes this site:

http://www.lotuscars.com/en/index

Which is also:

http://www.grouplotus.com

[xsexymasterix]

So a black car with gold lettering is illegal simply because a single particular brand of cigarettes is also sold in a black package with gold lettering?


Can The canadian govenment prove that the team is receiving financing from Imperial Tobacco and subliminally advertizing cigarettes. Of course not, as that is NOT the case. IS IT? Maybe if there hadn't been a 25 year break since that livery was actually last linked with a cigarette brand and Imperial Tobacco had been proven to be sponsoring the Lotus Renault team, I might say there was some manner of a case, but it's just BS. I suppose I can't have a baby blue and white car either? Or a red and white car? or a yellow car? or a white car? Or a silver and black car?

Wasn't Canada going to impose a law banning ANY branding of cigarette packaging whatsoever? Everyone would have to sell generically packaged cigarettes with a simple name on the package?


Yet another case of liberal f-tards screwing with peoples lives.

Wasn't Ferrari asked to get rid of a bar code showing on a small place of their car their car that was linked specifically to Marlboro cigarettes? I think once someone draws the link between something and a cigarette company it's all over.

[kennyguitar]

Yeah, but in the case of Ferrari, They WERE receiving substantial sponsorship from Marlboro, and as I recall, they continue to do so. The point is, this is a link to a paint scheme, not a damn package of cigarettes or more importanty, Tobacco sponsorship or advertising. Are they going to ban the Andretti clan from wearing the trademark red stripe on their helmets. That is after all a remnant of Viceroy sponsorship from what, 1972.

This , or any incarnation of Lotus hasn't received tobacco money in decades. It's still bu!!$#!!

If they were using the same font and mocking the JPS logo they might have a case.

I supose they will need to ban gold pinstripes on all black cars in Canada, let it be construed as tobacco advertising.

[Izzy]

No, a black car designed to evoke a JPS fag packet is illegal.

It's a direct, INTENTIONAL copy of a livery JPS designed and paid for to evoke their fag packets. If LRGP didn't realise that, they're morons.

English translation: This is not a pipe.
Actually this is not just "not a pipe", it's a computer display of a JPEG representation of a painting of an artist's impression of a pipe.

How many iterations do they wish to go before the thing isn't the thing which it's supposed to represent?

Besides which, the colour scheme itself was created in 1968 by John Player & Sons to evoke the Shelby Mustang GT350H. The 350H was specifically released to be rented through Hertz Rent a Car, but was soon stopped as they realised that the cars were being rented to be used as getaway cars from bank robberies.

It's a direct intentional copy of a livery JPS designed and paid for to evoke their fag packets, which itself was designed to evoke a colour scheme for a rental car company. The mind boggles

[Thomaswhitee]

Rubish

[Izzy]

Team Gold Leaf Lotus appeared at the 1968 Monaco GP, but the black JPS Lotii didn't appear until the 1972 Argentine GP. Imperial Tobacco registered the black and gold trademark in 1968, and the brand followed in the UK in 1970.

The Shelby 350H looks like this:

And there's a neat article here:
http://www.examiner.com/auto-review-...-driver-s-seat

[onelovemp]

I think the amusing thing is that racing fans see black and gold and think "Lotus", not JPS cigarettes. Lotus-Renault are reviving that livery becuase it is synonomus with Team Lotus, not because they want to evoke memories of JPS. Sure there's a link there but it's an incidental one in this case.

[Civilrecordzz]

See end of the day this is all about legal interpretation - someone who works for anti-tobacco is always going to give a completely strong anti-toabcco viewpoint no question about it.

Now the main issue which will arise here is in relation to tobacco sponsership - a car which has NO links to tobacco, receives no sponsership $ from tobacco and which runs nothing more than a classic COLOUR scheme - are they contravening the actual WORDING of the Act.

Having read through the relevant legislation (albeit briefly in the last 15mins) i've looked through what seem to be the sections of issue here and they all refer to ACTUAL promotion, sponsership attempts and the like and here we have something which seems to fall outside the scope of the legislation.............just wait tho any lawyer worth his salt would argue that BUT quite simple for legislature to change it up

[Gorlummm]

The whole idea that color schemes could be interpreted as hidden tobacco advertising is really ridiculous.... there are only two ways to fight this... bigger taxes and banning smoke from as many places as possible. If they think people start/keep smoking because the renaults are gold and black they are not too smart. I had now idea they're is a cigarettes brand that uses this colors before they brought it up.