[gennick]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...am-orders.html

McLaren chief insist he would rather forfeit the championship than use team orders

[lymnCymment]

We know that the cars dont have enough fuel on full throttle to finish the race. We also know that all teams use coded team orders which are allowed to slip under the radar.

[werkeeque]

Of course it is.

And it's not just McLaren.

Christian Horner is a hypocritical 2@

Race engineer Ciaran Pilbeam was asked to tell his driver Webber to save fuel in Turkey when Vettel turned the wick up

[snova]

Of course it is.

And it's not just McLaren.

Christian Horner is a hypocritical 2@

Race engineer Ciaran Pilbeam was asked to tell his driver Webber to save fuel in Turkey when Vettel turned the wick up

yes, and that is why all the teams are being such hypocrites, and Martin is telling ferrari to STFU....fear that by the time Luca sets it all off.....well, things--rules-- may get all far worse

[bestonline]

Its a stupid rule and always has been because no matter how it has been worded, teams have and always will issue team orders in order to win the championship. It clearly hasn't stopped team ordersm

What they need to do is split the teams during the race so they all run independent of each other. No shared pit crews, no shared equipment, no shared pit boxes. Without refuelling there is no logical justification for still having 15-18 people servicing one car from the same pit box. Let, no, force everyone run independent strategies and beat each other fair and square head to head. Mandate a starting fuel weight that is clearly more than enough to prevent fuel conservation.

[JaK_MarkoV_Pi]

Its a stupid rule and always has been because no matter how it has been worded, teams have and always will issue team orders in order to win the championship. It clearly hasn't stopped team ordersm

What they need to do is split the teams during the race so they all run independent of each other. No shared pit crews, no shared equipment, no shared pit boxes. Without refuelling there is no logical justification for still having 15-18 people servicing one car from the same pit box. Let, no, force everyone run independent strategies and beat each other fair and square head to head. Mandate a starting fuel weight that is clearly more than enough to prevent fuel conservation.

Seems a bit elaborate there , red5 .

Allow team orders .

Teams will still risk the same flack from the fans , but there wouldn't the farsical fan opinion-based "too obvious" penalty system .

[xanaxonlinexanax]

The last thing F1 needs is more rules or gimmicks.
We all know, or should, that in F1 or any other racing involving teams (excluding taxi cabs and most US racing) there have always been team orders.
The only reason we got the ban was because Ferrari were so blatant about it and it upset the casual fan so a dumb rule was put in place.
The smart thing to do would be to dump the rule, but with all the radio communications now public the casual fan would get upset again.
So I guess we will have to live with coded messages.
If Ferrari had not had Massa's engineer send the message or used the fuel save or brake code we would have been suspicious but that is all.

[MineOffedOvex]

BRING BACK REFUELLING please!

[OWV9LSxH]

There is a bit difference in telling team mates not to race each other compared with having them swap places.

[soipguibbom]

There is a bit difference in telling team mates not to race each other compared with having them swap places.

Not really. Aren't you ordering them NOT to swap places? Same thing, different #1 driver in front...

[nilliraq]

Not really. Aren't you ordering them NOT to swap places? Same thing, different #1 driver in front...

"plus one"

[soipguibbom]

Isn't the REAL "save fuel" code something like, "switch to mixture setting 6," or some such technical talk instructing the driver to change his fuel mixture switch on the steering wheel?

[Mypepraipse]

I've never imagined this Horner boy is such a hypocrite. After this last race I would have hidden in the bushes so I wouldn't have to answer those questions about team orders... And Withmarsh... I'm disappointed. He's behavior is rather pathetic. He's talking for half an hour about how he's not going to talk with the press about this situation. And why should Ferrari discuss its internal affairs with Withmarsh? He should be told to mind his damn business.

[Mypepraipse]

How many times did FIA got involved in an internal team situation to make sure both driver are given fair treatment? And which one is that team?

[Nmoitmzr]

Withmarsh... I'm disappointed. He's behavior is rather pathetic. He's talking for half an hour about how he's not going to talk with the press about this situation. And why should Ferrari discuss its internal affairs with Withmarsh? He should be told to mind his damn business.

Well I can think of one reason and that is.................. Because he's the FOTA chairman, and things which affect how the teams are percieved are a key element as to why the group was set up? I could well be wrong.

Plus Whitmarsh has not publically criticized Ferrari and stated that his discussions will be held in private. Lets put the guns away before we know more eh?

[Mypepraipse]

Well I can think of one reason and that is.................. Because he's the FOTA chairman, and things which affect how the teams are percieved are a key element as to why the group was set up? I could well be wrong.

Plus Whitmarsh has not publically criticized Ferrari and stated that his discussions will be held in private. Lets put the guns away before we know more eh?

I've read what he said. He said enough to make everyone understand what he thinks without saying it.

[bestonline]

Lets put the guns away before we know more eh?

Far more fun to take a headline completely out of context, come up with a load of conjecture and then get angry without a full grasp of the facts, don't you think old chap?

[Narkeere]

Isn't the REAL "save fuel" code something like, "switch to mixture setting 6," or some such technical talk instructing the driver to change his fuel mixture switch on the steering wheel?

Depends. Using mixture settings to save fuel can have adverse effects on cooling etc as the engines run hotter. Your safest bet is to ask the driver to short shift and lift and coast (save fuel) and see if that saves the required amount per lap, if not, then a mixture setting (G8) etc can be employed.

[Narkeere]

Far more fun to take a headline completely out of context, come up with a load of conjecture and then get angry without a full grasp of the facts, don't you think old chap?

Senna's McLaren found on Mars.

[Jadldqys]

@SGWilko - yup.

Remember the message we heard Petrov (who most certainly wan't running line-astern with his teammate) get, telling him to short shift to save fuel or the team would cut his revs?