[Lebybynctisee]

I've been thinking, in line with suggestions that anything a team tells their drivers consitutes some form of team orders, and decided that, rather than a "team order" rule, what's needed is a "scout's honour" rule, where the crime is primarily the moving over rather than the order to do so...

39.1 a) All drivers must at all times endeavour to do their utmost to obtain the highest race finishing position they and their car are capable of, within the spirit and letter of the Sporting Regulations, Technical Regulations and the International Sporting Code
b) At no time shall a driver deliberately cede track position during a race unless:
i) To return a position gained in contravention of these Regulations
ii) His car has a serious and continuing mechnical problem which forces him to cede, as can be demonstrated to the satisfaction of the FIA technical delegate after the race.
iii) When otherwise required to under these Regulations (e.g. Article 38.8), or when ordered to by a duly-appointed FIA official, in which case a blue flag will be shown at relevant marshal posts.
c) Teams must not order their drivers to behave in contravention of 39.1a) and b) at any time or in any way, nor facilitate them in doing so
d) Any driver or team found to behave in violation of 39.1a), b) or c) will automatically be excluded from the race result, and may face any other punishment at the stewards' discretion, including referral to the World Motor Sport Council for further sanction.

And while I'm at it, a "Red Bull Wing" rule :

24.9 Each team will present one car for homologation before P3 [Free Practice 3]. All parts used for the remainder of the Event must conform to the precise specification of those of the homologated car, except in line with Article 25.4 [tyre specs/use thereof], or such changes as the FIA technical delegate is satisfied are necessary in the event of a change of climatic conditions.

[avaissema]

As a consequence this rule if enacted would have excluded Guy Edwards and Arturo Merzario would have been "automatically be excluded from the race result" for "deliberately ceding track position" in the 1976 German Grand Prix when they stopped and tried to help when Niki Lauda's Ferrari caught fire.

I know that such a penalty would never be enforced but the point is that there are unintended consequences.

It also raises other questions about cars which have vastly disparaging differences in performances racing for position. If a car were to let a faster car through because they or their team didn't think that it was worth fighting for position, then they would be also excluded from the results.

Also, it might be advisable if a car is on a fuel save strategy to let a faster car through depending on the tactics of the motor race.

[SantaClaus]

If a driver wants to let another past, he can always "make a mistake." So unless you're going to follow the 39.1 "not trying hard enough" rule with 39.2 "trying too hard," you're still not preventing team orders. Just telling the teams that they need to be even more surreptitious about it.

[lymnCymment]

The rule we have's a bloody mess so why make it worse. Every time a team mate passes another, the Stewards will be inspecting.

Just get rid of the silly rule.

[exchpaypalgold]

Agree with those who say the team orders rule has to go. I didn't like it when Massa had to let Alonso by, and I was fuming after Austria '02, but we get over it - It's a team sport (unless you count Palmer Audi and fake F2), it always has been, and team orders have always been a part of the sport, whether it's letting your teammate past, setting a breakneck pace for your rivals knowing it will probably break your car (and theirs), or getting out of your car and giving it to your team leader who has retired.

The latter two don't happen anymore because of the ultra-reliability of modern cars, and the rule of one driver, one car (something that IS easily enforceable!), but you'll never stop what went on at the weekend. If you tell them they can't blatantly slow up, then it'll get even more underhand.

You'd see the teams coming up with unsuspicious phrases similar to "safe" words when informants are undercover, as a code, followed by a locked wheel and run wide, a brief off onto one of the multitude of harmless tarmac run-offs, so on. And if Massa hadn't been able to make it obvious, people would have assumed he got beaten in a fair fight, at least this way he can stay the moral victor in most people's eyes.

And yes you could probably analyse telemetry and all-sorts, but we already have way too much micro-management of F1, as the guy out of Fight Club says, "stop trying to control everything and just let go"

[bestonline]

Perhaps we could have a poll.

Q) How would you address the "team orders" rule?

a) Leave it as it is, it's always gone on and always will
b) Leave the rule in place but rigourously inforce it on every single occasion
c) Leave it in place except for when one driver is mathematically out of the championship
d) Abolish the rule and let teams manage their drivers as they see fit

Any thoughts before I suggest this to the moderators?

[DenisMoor]

Dave,
Doesn't it require two polls?
One for the future of the team order rule, and a second poll to discuss the way to handle blatant breaking of the current rule.

[werkeeque]

Perhaps we could have a poll.

Q) How would you address the "team orders" rule?

a) Leave it as it is, it's always gone on and always will
b) Leave the rule in place but rigourously inforce it on every single occasion
c) Leave it in place except for when one driver is mathematically out of the championship
d) Abolish the rule and let teams manage their drivers as they see fit

Any thoughts before I suggest this to the moderators?

D) & perhaps some sort of penalty for bringing the sport into disrepute. The FIA shouldn't be taking the flack, let the team and driver squirm in front of the public gallery.

[OWV9LSxH]

I believe a similar rule exists in Tennis. i.e. A player cannot just not bother trying to return another players serve because there's no point and they cannot give up before the end of the match because they are losing.