[wizardasa]

I'd like to add one more thing. IMO Red Bull is seriously missing Geoff Willis. With him RBR was quite reliable in 2008 and in the first half of '09, but after the departure of Willis in mid-09 everything has gone downhill quickly. Newey designs can't go unchecked! IMO the problem with Newey is that he is a bit of an old-school designer with an attitude that the best car "should fall into pieces after crossing the finish-line". May not work that well in current era with higher demands on reliability.

[Goksiodiffeli]

It has come to light that the brake failure was due to the tyre not being fixed properly during a pit stop which then damaged the brake rotor.

link?

[VIAGRAENLINOBARATOCAMPRAR]

I'd like to add one more thing. IMO Red Bull is seriously missing Geoff Willis. With him RBR was quite reliable in 2008 and in the first half of '09, but after the departure of Willis in mid-09 everything has gone downhill quickly. Newey designs can't go unchecked! IMO the problem with Newey is that he is a bit of an old-school designer with an attitude that the best car "should fall into pieces after crossing the finish-line". May not work that well in current era with higher demands on reliability.

I'd be inclined to agree. Newey is an excellent aerodynamisist but I've never really seen him in the role of technical director.

Back in the Williams days, with Patrick head overseeing the whole design, an excellent compromise was reached between cars that were bl00dy quick but that also lasted more than 40 laps!

[dexterljohnthefinanceguy]

I'd be inclined to agree. Newey is an excellent aerodynamisist but I've never really seen him in the role of technical director.

Back in the Williams days, with Patrick head overseeing the whole design, an excellent compromise was reached between cars that were bl00dy quick but that also lasted more than 40 laps!

Although Hill had some weird retirements.

[VIAGRAENLINOBARATOCAMPRAR]

Although Hill had some weird retirements.

So did everyone back then. 6 or 7 mechanical failures per season was regarded as a good reliabilty record. Now its terrible.

[InvertPrete]

was not caused by brake failure. Brembo issued a statement saying that their brake system was not at fault for Vettel's retirement.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82546

I couldn't believe what caused the actual retirement.

Mama mia!

[MFSSCW2c]

So did everyone back then. 6 or 7 mechanical failures per season was regarded as a good reliabilty record. Now its terrible.

Well, a few things caused the change:
1) The 2003-2009 points system - with more places getting points but smaller gaps between the places - which made finishing more important than ever (for the top teams, the balance between fast-&-reliable and very-fast-but-fragile tipped as catching up a deficit caused by mechanical retirements became harder; while the lower placed cars had more chance of a point if they kept going to the end).
2) Parc ferme qualifying - not being able to rip the car to bits between qualifying and the race made everyone just that bit more conservative
3) Single lap qualifying - while it didn't last, as long as the qualifying order was determined by the reverse-finishing order of the previous race, everyone had a STRONG incentive to finish, even if out of the points (retired cars were being patched up and sent back out two/three laps down during this period!)
4) Multi-race engines & gearboxes.

[AlabamaBoyz]

I have not heard of this failure for a long time. It just doesn't happen.

Possible build defect I suppose?

[TobaccoNUE]

was not caused by brake failure. Brembo issued a statement saying that their brake system was not at fault for Vettel's retirement.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82546

I couldn't believe what caused the actual retirement.

Mama mia!

Vettel = car breaker?

Webbo was too aggressive over the kerbs a couple of years ago causing the gearbox/hydraulics failures whereas DC could finish the race.

[mloversia]

Vettel = car breaker?

I don't buy the car breaker argument. Everyone said Kimi was but as soon as he went to Ferrari and didn't have a McLaren that fell to pieces all the time he had little to no mechanical failures.

[VIAGRAENLINOBARATOCAMPRAR]

I don't buy the car breaker argument. Everyone said Kimi was but as soon as he went to Ferrari and didn't have a McLaren that fell to pieces all the time he had little to no mechanical failures.

[TobaccoNUE]

I don't buy the car breaker argument. Everyone said Kimi was but as soon as he went to Ferrari and didn't have a McLaren that fell to pieces all the time he had little to no mechanical failures.

Because McLaren/Mercedes were more fragile.

Why was it Webbo had more hydraulics/gearbox failures than DC when RBR had their new seamless shift? Webbo was more aggressive over the kerbs, the shocks damaged the hydraulics systems. I am very sure I read somewhere that Christian Horner has admitted this.

[InvertPrete]

Ron Dennis has been gabbing about RBR and stating that Vetetl's slowdown in Bahrain was due more to fuel consumption problems, but somehow Webber managed to finish the race.

What did Christian Horner have to say about Ron's comment?

I guess the problem with age is that your hearing tends to fail you a little bit and perhaps Ron didn’t hear the misfire that was there and probably didn’t see the fact that the other car also finished the race without any issues at all.

[standaman]

Vettel = car breaker?

Webbo was too aggressive over the kerbs a couple of years ago causing the gearbox/hydraulics failures whereas DC could finish the race.

Let's just say that a car has to be built strong enough to take the beating in F1, and that's not something Newey can do, never ever.
The day RBR fired/lost Willis they shot themselves in the foot.

[standaman]

Ron Dennis has been gabbing about RBR and stating that Vetetl's slowdown in Bahrain was due more to fuel consumption problems, but somehow Webber managed to finish the race.

What did Christian Horner have to say about Ron's comment?
I guess the problem with age is that your hearing tends to fail you a little bit and perhaps Ron didn’t hear the misfire that was there and probably didn’t see the fact that the other car also finished the race without any issues at all.

I thought Vettel said that.

[standaman]

Because McLaren/Mercedes were more fragile.

Why was it Webbo had more hydraulics/gearbox failures than DC when RBR had their new seamless shift? Webbo was more aggressive over the kerbs, the shocks damaged the hydraulics systems. I am very sure I read somewhere that Christian Horner has admitted this.

Both Kimi's McLaren's and Seb's RBR are fragile because of Newey's design philosophy.

[standaman]

I'd be inclined to agree. Newey is an excellent aerodynamisist but I've never really seen him in the role of technical director.

Back in the Williams days, with Patrick head overseeing the whole design, an excellent compromise was reached between cars that were bl00dy quick but that also lasted more than 40 laps!

Exactly.

[TobaccoNUE]

Back in the Williams days, with Patrick head overseeing the whole design, an excellent compromise was reached between cars that were bl00dy quick but that also lasted more than 40 laps!

And what about the Newey designed McLarens that drove Hakkinen to 2 WDCs?

[VIAGRAENLINOBARATOCAMPRAR]

And what about the Newey designed McLarens that drove Hakkinen to 2 WDCs?

I thought someone might bring that up so I've done my homework ;-)

Whilst we all remember the MP4/13 as blindingly fast it was quite fragile. It retired with mechanical issues at San Marino, Monaco, Canada x2, Hungary (not a retirement - but Mika did have to limp home with a failing gearbox) and Monza x2 (Mika again managed to limp home).

Compare that to Ferrari (still in the super teams infancy) - one mechanical retirement for MS and two for Swerve.

Thanks to the cars insane speed that championship gap was too big for Ferrari to overcome but the fact it went all the way to the last GP against an inferior Ferrari says it all for me.

[movlabz]

Let's just say that a car has to be built strong enough to take the beating in F1, and that's not something Newey can do, never ever.

Never? Ever?

I think 1992 shows it is something Newey is perfectly capable of doing. 12 wins and six 1-2's. While, yes, he was working with Patrick Head, the Williams FW14B was a Newey designed car.

Even in 2009 the Red Bull managed six wins and four 1-2's.

In the 1990's a car's design was far more the work of one man compared with today where many different people are involved in a car's design. For example, at Red Bull, Newey is the Chief Technical Officer but they also have Peter Prodromou (Head of Aerodynamics) and Rob Marshall who is the Chief Designer.

As always with F1 it's easy to focus on one individual, but this is a team sport where any number of different factors can cause unreliability.