[Skete]

Bernard Jean-Pierre

But, on the other hand I think there at least could be some benefits as well. Can you please enlighten us with the benefits for DR if both countries were merged? Because I see known.

But one thing is certain, there are already 2 Millions Haitians (roughly) in the Dominican Republic. And as long as there is no consistent effort on the part of the Haitian and Dominican government, Haitians will continue to come in search of better living conditions. Just as Mexicans continue to come to the U.S. for better opportunities. It will not stop, period. Two different countries with two different nationalities laws; while the U.S of A bestow its nationality to everyone (except if you are born to diplomats parents), in the DR you can only become a DR citizen if your parents are DR citizens at the time of your birth.

So, no matter how many millions of Haitians are living in the DR, they have no chance to do anything as they can't vote.

Merging the 2 countries could (could....possibly) alleviate which in the future will inevitably become a mass but gradual exodus from Haiti. And exodus that will be deported back to their home country for coming to the DR illegally, and their DR born kids too, because they are not considered DR citizen by law.

Immigration laws and services should be designed to help and not hinder Haitians who are simply trying to survive. Is it another Government's responsibility to help another who has perhaps mismanaged itself?? No and Yes. You are wrong again Mr. Jean-Pierre, DR immigration laws and services should be designed to help, promote and advance the best interest of the Dominican people, NOT the Haitians.

Maybe your home country (if that country is not Haiti) can accommodate ten million Haitians! The USA, Canada and France have a lot of money and space. It won't be that hard for them to absorb ten million soul

[AricGoffgog]

Germany is one example, ill-fitted (the reasons have already been given) but still an example. Of course, even to this day, eastern Germany lags the western side and is the source of many problems in the otherwise incredible and strong (essentially western) German economy. It's been over 20 years since the unification, and the differences between east and west Germany at the time of unification were not as great as they are between the DR and Haiti, and I'm only referring to economic differences. Add to that everything else and it's simply a very bad idea to use Germany as an example of unification for either the DR or Haiti.

Other examples that lend themselves much easily to the DR/Haiti reality would be Yugoslavia (modern Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Croatia, etc); and this country dissolved despite the interests of the 'international community' that tried everything to keep it together.

Then there was the Czechoslovakia, the USSR, the old Malaysia (modern Malaysia + Singapore), the old India (modern India + Pakistan + Bangladesh) examples, among others.

In fact, even relatively successful multi-nation unions (like the UK, for example) are still not quite fully united (somehow Ireland managed to remain on its own despite its culture being much more similar to the rest of the UK than to perhaps any other place on earth).

Some people need to come to terms with one simple fact, there are not quick solution to Haiti's problems. Attaching the country to any of its neighbors will simply sink one more boat. Attaching Haiti to a much wealthier (think First World) and larger country would work better, but even then it will take a long time for things to equalize.

Take a look at Puerto Rico, it's essentially a colony of the US and has been for well over 100 years. It took roughly 30 to 40 years to industrialize it to the levels it is today, and it still lags the US to such a degree that if it was to become a US state it would be the poorest one of all. And this is not even taking into account that their economic model is obsolete and has much to do with their economic performance that for the past few years has been worst than, well, then Haiti! That's the situation in a US colony, keep that in mind.

Use the energy being wasted on finding a quick fix on trying to find a viable, realistic Haitian dependent, Haitian executed, and later Haitian enjoyed economic recovery and long term prosperity.

[TRASIAOREXOLA]

Preposterous and hugely unpopular?? Perhaps, but East and West Germany are now doing just fine. What many people DONT realize is that such a decision is not just a matter of what Haiti and the Dominican Republic wants. There are MUCH bigger players on the International Level, and they have more influence over what takes place then the individual Nations itself. It all comes down to Financial Interests. And with all respect, neither Haiti nor the Dominican Republic have much if any presence on the International-Global Economic table. Haiti is the poorest nation in the America's, and the Dominican Republic (its friendly neighbor) has an Economy that is growing, but it also largely dependent upon the Tourism industry and other exports like Sugar, Coffee, Tobacco etc. So on the Global level, the Dominican Republic is categorized under the 'United States' as its economy is affected greatly by what the U.S. economy does. So don't think for one second that it simply cant happen because Haiti doesn't want it, or the the Dominican Republic doesn't want it. Remember the 'Golden Rule'.

And what is so preposterous about 2 Nations coming together for possible mutual gain???

Good point, German and Germans got together!!!

No es lo mismo atras que en la espalda.

JJ

[xpllmr]

I guess your not fond of history nor recent events. One, Haiti hasn't been able to fix itself as of yet. Two, they won't have the chance to prove that they could fix themselves because the international community is going to donate billions of dollars of infrastructure over the next 10 years.

You are right on the money there. I am totally cognizant of both and "fond" of neither. Too much external manipulation to suit my taste.

[VYholden]

That's like asking a Man in a full body cast laying on his death bed "what sports can you play?", "how far can you walk?" etc. Give the 'man' a chance to get out his death bed, get his legs under him, learn to walk again, and THEN ask him those questions.

Didn't you just answer your own question ?

(Plus, once the man run, these questions won't be necessary)

[SnareeWer]

First.. the DR has NOT been deporting any Haitians since well before the earthquake.. ANY Haitian who has the papers and smarts to get a visa has been welcomed to come here. Many of the Haitians who are here actually have BUSINESS visas..

President Fernandez did get the DR put onto the council of foreign donors that is deciding how the donation money is to be spent even though the DR did not, on paper, contribute the $100 million that was required for admission to the commission.

Smart Dominican businessmen have already made a place for themselves in Haiti.

But really.. really... anyone who thinks that these two countries should merge has evidently not visited them both. Both have their own distinct and precious cultural heritage.

Not to mention a deep historic resentment of one another which is just now beginning to heal.

Bad answer. Bad suggestion.... Bad research....

[ensuppono]

I used Germany as an example NOT of cultures merging, but to show that it is possible to merge 2 Political Agendas with the intent of sustaining a long term foundation for gain and national benefit.

Well except for the point abet a small one. They did not merge 2 political agendas. the east Germans were merged into the west German economy complete with currency exchange and every thing else. Political Agendas were not even part of the equation.

And the same will be true if ever North and South Korea merge. There is nothing except a miltary complex to be merged as North Korea has nothing else.

Bernard name one part of the political agenda of the east germans that was merged??

[yasalaioqe]

Good point, German and Germans got together!!!

No es lo mismo atras que en la espalda.

JJ

Thanks for reading what I said about the 'type' of example I used. Y no es lo mismo, el que no escucha, y el que no tiene oidos.

[Skete]

Annie

First.. the DR has NOT been deporting any Haitians since well before the earthquake.. ANY Haitian who has the papers and smarts to get a visa has been welcomed to come here. Many of the Haitians who are here actually have BUSINESS visas.. That doesn't mean they are going to allow the DR to be overrun by Haitians! Once the international community forget about Haiti, the DR will start deporting the illegals as it's always done.

The Dominican population wants the Haitian to be deported back to their country, so just wait and see.

Cada día más dominicanos quieren que los haitianos sean repatriados - Opiniones de Invitados e Invitadas - Diario F-27, Noticias de Republica Dominicana

Read this news, the numbers of Dominican that wants the Haitians deported is growing by the day. It won't take long for the government to start acting.

[Adwetyren]

Preposterous and hugely unpopular?? Perhaps, but East and West Germany are now doing just fine. East and West Germany also share the same ethnicity, language and for the most part, culture. This is a ludicrous idea. Get back to me when The Economist endorses such an idea and how they think it might work.

[SnareeWer]

Annie



That doesn't mean they are going to allow the DR to be overrun by Haitians! Once the international community forget about Haiti, the DR will start deporting the illegals as it's always done.

The Dominican population wants the Haitian to be deported back to their country, so just wait and see.

Cada día más dominicanos quieren que los haitianos sean repatriados - Opiniones de Invitados e Invitadas - Diario F-27, Noticias de Republica Dominicana

Read this news, the numbers of Dominican that wants the Haitians deported is growing by the day. It won't take long for the government to start acting.

I agree that there will be a rising sentiment. And pressure on the government. I just really doubt that the DR is going to try to repatriate while there are still 1.3 million Haitians living in tents. They simply do not have the heart for it.

[yasalaioqe]

Bernard Jean-Pierre



Can you please enlighten us with the benefits for DR if both countries were merged? Because I see known.

Its not just about what benefit there is for ONE side, but rather both. Nothing is guaranteed. But what I am saying is that there is a possibility of mutual gain. The problem mainly lies in the far reaching poverty. Haiti needs support, and like I said if nothing is done Haitians will continue to exit their native home in search of something better. That WILL INEVITABLY become a much larger problem for the Dominican Republic. If you invite 4 people over to eat, there will be enough to go around, however if 400 show up to eat, nobody will get anything because there is not enough supply to meet demand. Merging could (again could) alleviate that because Haitians would be able to remain where they are and benefit from the economic system established by a Haitian-Dominican Government that understands the needs of each side.

Two different countries with two different nationalities laws; while the U.S of A bestow its nationality to everyone (except if you are born to diplomats parents), in the DR you can only become a DR citizen if your parents are DR citizens at the time of your birth.

Yes, because of laws. Laws can and do change. That is how our buddy Leonel is where he is right now.

So, no matter how many millions of Haitians are living in the DR, they have no chance to do anything as they can't vote.

Again, something that a simple change of applicable laws can change.


And exodus that will be deported back to their home country for coming to the DR illegally, and their DR born kids too, because they are not considered DR citizen by law.

Oh you mean like the all those people crossing the border in Dajabon, getting kicked back into their country during open market??? Oh wait, thats Haitians crossing the border INTO the Dominican Republic. Yea, CESFRONT is really sticking it to them. Please! I guess they are waiting to the Haitians reach 5 Million first before they start deporting them back to Haiti. Tu ta pasao!

You are wrong again Mr. Jean-Pierre, DR immigration laws and services should be designed to help, promote and advance the best interest of the Dominican people, NOT the Haitians.

Using your reasoning, I guess the USA should also adopt that wonderful philosophy you have and start deporting Haitians AND Dominicans and everybody else in the known world who were not born in the United States. Good thing everyone does not think that way! Sitting back with the arms crossed, thumb twiddling while Haiti sinks and DR fills with Haitians is ALSO not in the best interest of the Dominican people.

Maybe your home country (if that country is not Haiti) can accommodate ten million Haitians! The USA, Canada and France have a lot of money and space. It won't be that hard for them to absorb ten million soul

What?!? A lot of money and space?? What in the world does that even mean??? Your making it seem like there are just hundreds of thousands of miles of pre-developed parcels of land, just waiting to be inhabited by random people. Get real. Yes the USA has a lot of money, but it is also Trillions of Dollars upside down. By the way, the Dominican Republic has already "accommodated" quite a few, and it is still considered a developing country, imagine that.

[Skete]

What?!? A lot of money and space?? What in the world does that even mean??? Your making it seem like there are just hundreds of thousands of miles of pre-developed parcels of land, just waiting to be inhabited by random people. Get real. Yes the USA has a lot of money, but it is also Trillions of Dollars upside down. By the way, the Dominican Republic has already "accommodated" quite a few, and it is still considered a developing country, imagine that.

The DR is in DEBT too, and we don't have hundreds of thousands of miles of pre-developed parcels of land either, and on top of that we are a poor country too, where more than half of the population is poor. So what's your point!!??

If the US can't or is unwilling to take them, why should the DR!

The U.S. Canada and France have accommodated quite a few too

[IssuessBratte]

This is ludicrous, preposterous, insanity, heresy at its best. How could you merge two countries with a difference in culture, heritage, customs and history.

[Drugsonl]

Y es que esta gente no tiene nada que hacer en vez de estar proponiendo ideas estupidas? Busquen oficio.

[Siffidiolla]

Y es que esta gente no tiene nada que hacer en vez de estar proponiendo ideas estupidas? Busquen oficio.

Lo mas increible es despues de explicarla la historia de los dos paises y como es la situacion actual que ellos siguen proponiendo esa absurda idea.

[Agehoobionibe]

when you have money, borders are only an inconvenience, like getting your bags screened at the airport. when you have money you go through, over, or around borders. borders are only for controlling the amount of poor people that cross everyday, the rich never met a border they couldn't cross, be it business, leasure, a combination of the two, or a visit to family. i make exception for Cuba and North Korea.

[Logaleta]

[QUOTE=NALs;913323]Germany is one example, ill-fitted (the reasons have




Take a look at Puerto Rico, it's essentially a colony of the US and has been for well over 100 years. It took roughly 30 to 40 years to industrialize it to the levels it is today, and it still lags the US to such a degree that if it was to become a US state it would be the poorest one of all. And this is not even taking into account that their economic model is obsolete and has much to do with their economic performance that for the past few years has been worst than, well, then Haiti! That's the situation in a US colony, keep that in mind.

I'm not so sure if Puerto Rico would be the poorest state. You do have some states such as North Dakota that have essentially nothing to offer for tourism or what not. I'm glad you mentioned Puerto Rico because that's exactly the model I was thinking of in reference to Haiti. The US or France would be the best bet to control Haiti. The ONLY thing I agree with the OP with is that Haiti was once beautiful. And although Haiti is more mountainous it could still provide an excellent source as tourism as Puerto Rico and DR do. Lets not forget that Labadee is part of Haiti and is well accessed by cruise ships. Of course Haitians probably aren't even allowed there but that's a different story.

I really think the best option is for Haiti to becoem a commonwealth of a richer country.This would benefit DR. If there are roughly 2 million Haitians in DR with a population of 10 million then that means the unaccounted population of DR is 16% Haitian!

[SnareeWer]

[QUOTE=shawn27;913532]

Germany is one example, ill-fitted (the reasons have




Take a look at Puerto Rico, it's essentially a colony of the US and has been for well over 100 years. It took roughly 30 to 40 years to industrialize it to the levels it is today, and it still lags the US to such a degree that if it was to become a US state it would be the poorest one of all. And this is not even taking into account that their economic model is obsolete and has much to do with their economic performance that for the past few years has been worst than, well, then Haiti! That's the situation in a US colony, keep that in mind.

I'm not so sure if Puerto Rico would be the poorest state. You do have some states such as North Dakota that have essentially nothing to offer for tourism or what not. I'm glad you mentioned Puerto Rico because that's exactly the model I was thinking of in reference to Haiti. The US or France would be the best bet to control Haiti. The ONLY thing I agree with the OP with is that Haiti was once beautiful. And although Haiti is more mountainous it could still provide an excellent source as tourism as Puerto Rico and DR do. Lets not forget that Labadee is part of Haiti and is well accessed by cruise ships. Of course Haitians probably aren't even allowed there but that's a different story.

I really think the best option is for Haiti to becoem a commonwealth of a richer country.This would benefit DR. If there are roughly 2 million Haitians in DR with a population of 10 million then that means the unaccounted population of DR is 16% Haitian!

Shawn--- Puerto Rico was taken in the Spanish American War and was given Associated Free State status because the US needed the soldiers to fight in WW1 and to have a strategic base in the Caribbean...

There is no way that Haiti is going to give up the remnants of its independence or sovereigty.. nor any chance that either the US or France would take her on....

It seems to me that you have never actually spoken to many Haitians... who are some of the proudest and most nationalistic in the hemisphere.. despite the state of their nation. They have a unique culture which they are intent on preserving.

The current state of affairs of Haiti is that they are, de facto, a ward of the international community. But that is really as far as it is going to go.

The figure of 2 million Haitians has been bandied about for a couple of years but is considered to be an exaggeration (perhaps not for long) ... the agreed on figure by the most responsible sources is closer to one million.

[Logaleta]

[QUOTE=mountainannie;913539]

There is no way that Haiti is going to give up the remnants of its independence or sovereigty.. nor any chance that either the US or France would take her on....

It seems to me that you have never actually spoken to many Haitians... who are some of the proudest and most nationalistic in the hemisphere.. despite the state of their nation. They have a unique culture which they are intent on preserving.


.

Annie Haiti is hardly independent... My definition of an independent state is one that can exist without the aid of others. What would happen if all these aid groups, doctors without borders etc just up and left Haiti? I can't even imagine. Haiti is a degenerate state for a variety of reasons that have already been discussed.

I'm not so sure that Haitians would reject the idea of becoming a commonwealth. I remember after the earthquake they were interviewing Haitians who kept asking "Why haven't THEY helped us, we need help. This indicates to me that the Haitian government cannot help it's own people without international aid. The Haitian people know this. An earthquake rocked Chile shortly after Haiti and the Chilean predient proudly stated that they didnt need any help. I'm sure if an earthquake hit DR they wouldn't need as much help as Haiti did. Not to mention the poor infrastruture of buildings in Haiti played a huge part of the devastation.