[bahrains27]

Ecthy: CyberShy, you can judge their past action by looking at how well prepared they were for any kind of aftermath. I hear they had NO concepts at all as to what to do with a free Iraq, thinking it would all happen all by itself. "A bittoo optimistic" is rather a euphemism for that.

I think that you're right about that.
The Bush administration was way too optimistic. (I tried it with an euphymism )

BeBro: 1. Are you now claiming the mess was unavoidable? Then you do exactly use the "knowledge from now". If you mean it was clear that it was unavoidable before the invasion, your complaint about people blaming Bush "only with the knowledge from now" is wrong.

No, I think that on beforehand mess is unavoidable if a land that hosts different tribes/civilizations/tongues is being ruled with a hard hand by a dictator, that a mess is the result after the dictator is gone.

As long as the dictator is there, the rival parties forget their problems. But if the dictator is gone they dig up their age old hostilities and start to attack each other.
That's why I believe that in the end Iraq must be divided. But first the Turks, Iranians and Syrians must understand that that's the only solution.

2. Aside from this I still reject your "was unavoidable" bit if you mean this kind of mess would have come for sure with or without invasion. That's still just speculation, totally unprovable.

yes, it is speculation, but I think that history proofs that it's true.
The Balkan wars are a perfect example.
Maybe in a small number cases peace naturally flowed out of the dead of the dictator, in nations that host different civilizations.

[jamemeveRhype]

+1 means in most forums that you agree with the speaker just above you.

Thanks for agreeing with me

[robinthesearchmasterh]

WTF is this thread about?

[Madjostok]

I removed the iraq-posts from the linked thread to this thread as asked by the OP of the linked thread.

It is about the question if the current mess in Iraq was unavoidable and would have started anyday that Saddam or one of his successors would die/step up and the dictator state would have ended.

My answer is: yes, the current mess would have erupted eventually and the Bush administration is not to blame for it. (though the Bush administration didn't prepare well for it either and are to blame for a bad approach)

[SannyGlow]

How do armed militias, terrorist organizations, military occupations and organized resistence groups qualify as anarchy?