[ovenco]

No one wants to stop legal immigration. Well at least no one worth being taken seriously. It's the illegal kind people are concerned with. There's just a conflict on the best way to do that.

[ArraryTauTDew]

The US is ruled by two catch-all parties that are full of contradictions.

The Republicans currently gather the pro-business types and the religious types. The religious types usually are lower on the social scale than the pro-business ones, and their economic interests can be at odds (and frequently are).
Immigration is good for business and bad for the average local worker, because it gives a pool of cheap and obedient labor to the businessmen, that directly competes against the more demanding red-blooded-American workforce.

Since the Repugs want to please their pro-business side, and continue to get generous donation $$$, they can't take a genuinely strong stance against immigration.


The Dems are closer to the Unions( which are generally hostile to NAFTA and to immigration), but they're also dependant of big business, and also have some humanitarian qualms about the immigrants. You can't avowedly let a foreigner starve in his hellhole when you're a liberal, after all*


*This is not true of southern democrats.

[Xutrsavf]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
NAFTA SUCKS! You say that because you don't belong to big business.

Ask DanS what he thinks of NAFTA

[Indinehon]

Pretty much right on, Spiffor.

The Big Business right, the socially left, Big Labor, and assorted Libertarians generally favor as open an immigration policy as possible, favor guest worker programs, and favor some sort of amnesty.

Social conservatives and rank & file union members generally favor clamping down on illegal immigration, oppose amnesty, and generally oppose guest worker programs.

These opposed groups are split between the parties. The Republican party includes Big Business, Social Conservatives, along with some Libertarians and rank & file union members. The Democrats includes the Socially Left, Big Labor, and other rank & file union members.

[Ettiominiw]

VL: It's a great contradiction. The country has a strong economy and needs a steady stream of immigrants. Meanwhile, that immigration is unpopular. The gov't is left with the task of squaring that circle.

[valentinesdayyy]

Labor unions are pretty divided on immigration. AFSCME, Hotel & Restaurant workers, etc. are more sympathetic to immigrants than some of the construction trades, professional trades and public sector unions. Some are even sitting on the fence.

And no matter what, we have a shitty immigration policy all around. Skilled immigrants from friendly countries have to sweat it out waiting for a green card while we dink around with diversity lotteries and H-2 visas. No matter what, immigration policy doesn't radically change.

[KeestRast]

Money and votes, what both parties get(or hope to get) from keeping immigration as is. Puzzle solved.

and as for what everyone else wants, they don't all want the same solution.

[Carfanate]

Originally posted by DanS


I don't believe that to be true. Or at least, they would wish the provisions for legal immigration to be very narrow. You missed the next sentence in that post.

[EtellaObtaite]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
No one wants to stop legal immigration. Well at least no one worth being taken seriously. I believe that this is not true, unless you regard your neighbours and fellow voters as unworthy of being taken seriously. It is my impression that common people are opposed to just about any immigration, but the elites are completely detached from what the people want. And since elites run the media, they set the limits of what is discussed and how.

I'm no expert on US elites, but here is an example. I follow a few blogs and sites by Ivy league economic professors and the like. I haven't observed a single one that is opposed to immigration.

[esanamaserrn]

The Big Business right, the socially left, Big Labor, and assorted Libertarians generally favor as open an immigration policy as possible, favor guest worker programs, and favor some sort of amnesty.

Social conservatives and rank & file union members generally favor clamping down on illegal immigration, oppose amnesty, and generally oppose guest worker programs. Libertarians + Big Business + others ...

... 10 000 people?

I mean it's fairly obvious which group is bigger by an enormous margin.

[BadbarmrapBef]

The solitary issue I have with immigration into this country is not one of the immigrants themselves but what kind of provisions are made for them (or, in fact, the population as a whole). They need to start addressing the lack of available/affordable property in London, which seems to be quite a hotspot for immigrants. There is a considerable amount of brownfield sites that can be used to resolve this - and so many places that just stand empty and boarded up - you can't help but notice this when moving around London.

[Cajlwdvx]

Originally posted by VetLegion Libertarians + Big Business + others ...

... 10 000 people? No, more like millions of people. Libertarians and other free market Conservatives don't necessarily have to be fat cats, they just believe in a particular philosophy. In my experience, most upper middle class Republicans fall into this free market Conservative mold and support lenient immigration / guest workers / amnesty for illegals.

Another important pro-immigration group that I forgot about are the religious groups. The Catholic Church and many Protestant churches side with the pro-immigration movements.

[picinaRefadia]

Originally posted by VetLegion


Libertarians + Big Business + others ...

... 10 000 people?

I mean it's fairly obvious which group is bigger by an enormous margin. But those 10.000 people are richer than the rest of the country
and therefore can afford to influence the opinion of the poeople (for example by election campaigns and the like)
And with just 2 political parties that have any influence, the options for the voters are minimal to change anything (unless they all would vote any of the smaller parties, but as these aren´t supported by the people with the big money (which could be used for election campaigns), the chances of this happening are minimal

[Edwardthe_third]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
If we want to stop illegal immigration from Mexico we need to tackle the root cause, Mexican poverty. And the cause of that is the large scale corruption of their system. good luck trying to fix that.

[ttoothh]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Basically, you see nothing wrong with people not getting their way The public is more divided than you think. It's more like 60-40 or 55-45. And the illegals tend to live in the cities, where immigration is more popular.

Besides, it's not as if controlling this border is easy. The federal gov't looks at it as an impossible task, in some respects.

[vekiuytyh]

Free movement of goods, services, and people

[Zptmsemk]

Originally posted by DanS


The public is more divided than you think. It's more like 60-40 or 55-45. And the illegals tend to live in the cities, where immigration is more popular. Can you link a good source, a reliable poll or something?

Here's where I got my info about the immigration issue: http://www.isteve.com

He has articles about how the polls are engineered to mask the real percentages.

Besides, it's not as if controlling this border is easy. The federal gov't looks at it as an impossible task, in some respects. Abovementioned author also writes that interpolating from Israeli costs in building the wall around the West Bank, walling off the US border with Mexico wouldn't be expensive at all.