[goctorsurger]

The fake plans and plans to plan seem to be hitting a wall. Lies on top of lies about making plans to fix things will likely unravel. How many times can you say "the check is in the mail" before the bill collector says "cash only and now!"

2011-10-26-Euro USD.jpg

The Euro has already pushed up through many resistance points. It has a long way to fall. If it does, the stock market should likewise drop precipitously since it has only been an exchange rate cause for stocks going up.

[goctorsurger]

At zero hedge there was a good article about "buying the rumor and selling the news". The concept they are using to float the Euro is to keep flashing rumors and never any news.

Here is another article that hits home, about Germany potentially leaving the EU-
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed...deutsche-marks

Germany is Already Printing Money… Deutsche Marks!!!

....
Folks, something VERY bad is brewing behind the scenes. The Sarkozy- Merkel talks, the short-selling bans, the halted stocks, the leveraged EFSF, the hints of QE 3, all of this is telling us that the financial system is on DEFCON 1 Red Alert.

Ignore stocks, they’re ALWAYS the last to “get it.” The credit markets are jamming up just like they did in 2008. The banking system is flashing all the same signals as well.

So if you have not already taken steps to prepare for systemic failure, you NEED to do so NOW. We're literally at most a few months, and very likely just a few weeks from Europe's banks imploding.
What happened in 2008 was literally just the warm up. The REAL DEAL is coming in the next 14 months. And it’s going to involve corporate, financial, and sovereign defaults.
...

[cut sifted ephedra sinica]

Uber Doomy but I'm getting doom weary.
I've done all I can do. I'm on cruise control now.

Yeah... it amazes me how people are like lemmings. If they cannot see the fox eating other lemmings, they march happily along without concerns. It will take the crashing of a wall of panicked lemmings upon the happy grazers to wake them up. Somehow they keep kicking the reality down the road so that all live in wonderland. The devils found that when you get society to buy into a fake system, a dome of lies and desired thoughts will keep them entrapped.

[CGECngjA]

So is this going to take PMs up or down?

[goctorsurger]

So is this going to take PMs up or down?

I think that if the Euro ever does crash to its fair value, the coordination of the dollar crash will determine prices of PMs and stocks. If the Euro goes first, the dollar will rise and PMs will drop. I thought this would have happened already.

Now if they wrangle a way to tie the dollar into the support for the Euro, all fall down together and PMs skyrocket. The bastards have eliminated the ability of one to follow the rules and properly predict events.


btw- at the close, the Euro is back up to its opening value. No good reason- just rumors of plans to make a plan. People are counting on governments to conspire happiness into the markets by stealing from taxpayers and their futures.

[Beerinkol]

Thought the Fed was going to purchase all of Europe?

Remember hearing something in the news about a beast with two backs humping...

[DarrenBent]

So is this going to take PMs up or down?

Like Spec said, it depends on the level of US involvement. I don't know whether the Fed will bail out Europe, but if not when the Euro tanks the Dollar will make strong gains and PMs will take a fall.

[Friend_Joe]

What down one penny? That ain't crashing. That is normal volatility anymore.

[Faungarne]

EUR is saved! 2 pennies higher than yesterday. The bucky is taking it on the chin this morning.

[goctorsurger]

Happy happy horseshit. It is being played up..... all is twisted. Amazing how backwards this whole world is. The layers of liars cover over the festering cancer.

=====================================
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/farce-...t-credit-event
Farce Is Complete As ISDA Finds 50% "Haircut" Is Not A Credit Event
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 10/27/2011 06:52

And, as expected, here is ISDA with the most farcical of decisions. From Reuters: "A new voluntary deal for holders of Greek debt to accept deeper losses is unlikely to trigger a 'credit event' that would cause a payout on default insurance, said a top lawyer at the International Swaps and Derivatives Association. Greek bondholders face losses of 50 percent under a plan to lower the country's debt burden and contain the euro zone's long-running debt crisis. The aim is to complete negotiations on the package by the end of the year. But because participation in the deal is voluntary rather than forced, it would typically not trigger payment on CDS contracts. "As far we can see it's still a voluntary arrangement and therefore we are in the same position as we were with the 21 percent when that was agreed," said David Geen, general counsel at derivatives body ISDA, referring to an original deal proposed in July that involved smaller bondholder losses. "The percentage (of losses), as far as the analysis for CDS purposes goes, doesn't change things. typically a voluntary arrangement won't trigger the CDS." Geen said the final decision on whether a credit event has occurred rested with the ISDA determinations committee, which would consider the issue when requested to do so by a CDS market participant." The fact that the decision is "voluntary" under duress from an entire political system which realizes its ponzi structure is collapsing is seemingly irrelevant. Luckily, the market is not all that stupid and the preliminary reaction is as expected, and to paraphrase Willem Buiter, "Failure to trigger Greek sovereign CDS when economic logic indicates this ought to occur would likely be detrimental to financial stability." But that's irrelevant. The EU has kicked the can down the road. Now it is literally a race for the fade to discover who is first to realize that as Zero Hedge and now RBS chimes in, "the EFSF is still too small to restore investor confidence."

[avaiguite]

Happy happy horseshit. It is being played up..... all is twisted. Amazing how backwards this whole world is. The layers of liars cover over the festering cancer.

=====================================
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/farce-...t-credit-event
Farce Is Complete As ISDA Finds 50% "Haircut" Is Not A Credit Event
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 10/27/2011 06:52

And, as expected, here is ISDA with the most farcical of decisions. From Reuters: "A new voluntary deal for holders of Greek debt to accept deeper losses is unlikely to trigger a 'credit event' that would cause a payout on default insurance, said a top lawyer at the International Swaps and Derivatives Association. Greek bondholders face losses of 50 percent under a plan to lower the country's debt burden and contain the euro zone's long-running debt crisis. The aim is to complete negotiations on the package by the end of the year. But because participation in the deal is voluntary rather than forced, it would typically not trigger payment on CDS contracts. "As far we can see it's still a voluntary arrangement and therefore we are in the same position as we were with the 21 percent when that was agreed," said David Geen, general counsel at derivatives body ISDA, referring to an original deal proposed in July that involved smaller bondholder losses. "The percentage (of losses), as far as the analysis for CDS purposes goes, doesn't change things. typically a voluntary arrangement won't trigger the CDS." Geen said the final decision on whether a credit event has occurred rested with the ISDA determinations committee, which would consider the issue when requested to do so by a CDS market participant." The fact that the decision is "voluntary" under duress from an entire political system which realizes its ponzi structure is collapsing is seemingly irrelevant. Luckily, the market is not all that stupid and the preliminary reaction is as expected, and to paraphrase Willem Buiter, "Failure to trigger Greek sovereign CDS when economic logic indicates this ought to occur would likely be detrimental to financial stability." But that's irrelevant. The EU has kicked the can down the road. Now it is literally a race for the fade to discover who is first to realize that as Zero Hedge and now RBS chimes in, "the EFSF is still too small to restore investor confidence."

I agree with you on the liars, and such.

but I think technically they are correct, a default or bankruptcy makes all counterparty contracts come due. (Lehman)

if Lehman had come to the table, volunteered to shave so much off of the deal, then the contracts are not due.

Sinclair covered this at length, he said in bankruptcy/default all contracts (derivatives) become nominal. that was the inherent danger in them. once one company slides into default, then all its contracts become "due immediately", causing the cascading (or domino).

maybe they learned something from lehman?


voluntary writedowns versus court ordered bankruptcy/defaults

[goctorsurger]

Yes- voluntary write-downs. So who loses from that? If you look at the markets, all is happy and there are no losses.

[avaiguite]

Yes- voluntary write-downs. So who loses from that? If you look at the markets, all is happy and there are no losses.

from my understanding, most of the bondholders for greek debt are german and french banks...

so they are the losers, but the market is perceiving them as the winners...

[goctorsurger]

from my understanding, most of the bondholders for greek debt are german and french banks...

so they are the losers, but the market is perceiving them as the winners...

LOL- yes, it is like they were given a full bag of dog-doo and they negotiated to only take a half bag today.

[cut sifted ephedra sinica]

Better than having to take a whole bag, isn't it?

Who said they would not get the other half? Well, the full bag will be passed on to the people who will see their currency devalued even as their salaries decrease. Prices will be inflated and money supply will decrease for the common folks while the fat bankers bathe in extra cash.

The delivery of the bag is being diverted from its earned recipient to the dumb people on the street.

[cut sifted ephedra sinica]

Let's just figure the stock market will always keep going up. A bazillion dollars will be made available if quadrillion is not enough. Producing more money is easy. Everyone will be happy. Who needs to produce anything anymore?

Hmmm... but nobody will be giving valuable things to others based on easy money. And the banksters will not flood the system with easy money to release people from debt. No, they will shift liabilities ONTO the people so that they can take hold of valuable assets in exchange for unpaid debt. This crisis will be pushed until the people rebel in violence.