[insightmike]

My, my, my, isn’t this interesting, The Lorax, since you are unable to present an opposing argument, you resort to name-calling. This adds nothing to the discussion, it only demonstrates your own lack of sophistication. But then, I told you that you wouldn’t believe some of what I wrote and that it would make you angry. Did you even wonder how I knew that? In nearly 3 decades of jungle travel during the last century, I have seen plenty. And when was the last time you were in an area completely isolated from any sort of civilization that would give you the qualifications to discount my own?

You obviously, have never been to places where the struggle to survive is a life or death situation on a daily basis. It is where there are few if any metal tools, or crop seeds, or clothing, or stores, or where anything useful for humans might be purchased because those natives have no money or anything with which to barter. Besides, they are completely lacking in elemental education.

I have seen things only a tiny handful of men will ever see and have been to places most people do not even believe exist. I have been to places where no white man has been and to places so remote that nearly half the population is inbred albino. I’ve been to places where there is no ‘language,’ as such, and to where an entire village of 1,800 people lay dead from disease. I’ve seen naked farmers barely existing, and whose children had not.

These are places where slash and burn agriculture lives, and it is days by foot or by boat and usually many miles away from any city or town.

Your comment about your preference for buying plants from native people simply shows how you do not understand the problem. Those people are civilized. For the most part, none of them need to torch the jungle; they are producers, of some sort or another.

Incidentally, if you thought for just a moment, about the dollar costs of mounting an expedition into the jungle to search for just a single plant you might see just how inane your comment about buying them cheaply from a native really is. My costs for film alone on each trip was in the thousands of dollars. Months of planning, gathering of reference materials and other information simply can’t be counted, as can be travel, lodging, food, medications, equipment, etc., expenses can.

It’s the OTHER native people I’m talking about. THEY are the ones who must cut down acres of forest, burn the old-growth trees to clear the land and to provide some basic semblance of fertilizer, plant their tubers or cuttings, …and then move to another plot 3 years later because that’s the most they can squeeze from the nutrient-poor soils. There are millions and millions of them. When the rains don’t come or the plague does, well, …Darwin’s theory keeps their populations down. But not forever. And then there is the charcoal producer. Everyone needs fuel to cook their food….

I used to believe all that ‘stuff’ people throw out as facts, …that was until I went there and saw for myself what real truth was. As I said, I’m not surprised at your disbelief; you, like most everyone else are simply too invested in the lies you have been fed. What surprises me is that so many seemingly intelligent people do not have the ability or the curiosity to question anymore.

It doesn’t really matter if you believe what I say or write because you are not the one who will make the difference.

[topbonusescod]

Wow, touchy!

[insightmike]

Touchy??? I think not.

I don't like being called a liar anymore than you would.

[topbonusescod]

Anyone is entitled to their opinion as to what is "the whole truth". I don't think that it was an attack, or name calling. You can dispute it and present an contradicting argument. That is the point of having this avenue for discourse.

[fuslkdhfma]

No Eric, not that touchy. There are evidently people here who are simply not pleased having their belief system challenged and will brook no opinion to the contrary. They find it easy to dismiss the belief systems of others as simple contrarianism and attempt to assign it the status of religion. It would appear his underlying assumption is that anyone who disagrees with his position is automatically and unequivocally wrong. Not all people who hold opposing views are necessarily malevolent, egostistical, naive, ignorant, or wrong.

John Godfrey Saxe's ( 1816-1887) version of the famous Indian legend
Quote:

[fuslkdhfma]

Oh geeze, more posts while I was cutting and pasting.

Lance Birk, no one is calling you a liar. I do not accept your interpretation of what you have seen as being the whole truth though. If you want to field collect, go for it.

[fuslkdhfma]

I've had a few of these hanging in my house for several years. They seem to thrive on neglect and they bloom well enough on and off throughout the year. I ordered cuttings with a group of people and picked up quite a few new hoya. They rooted well over a month ago and I'm going to have to go and get them potted up here real soon before the weather turns. They really are nice hanging plants and can stand up to being banged around by kids and going without water if you forget you have them.

There's one particular hoya that I've been looking to buy. I'm going to have to track it down sooner or later. Take a look at this if you like hoya-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/epiforu...7600338453745/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/epiforums/265761763/

I guess that plant is a Hoya aff. Cyrtocerus floribundum but I've been reading where people have been arguing about the id.

Three others I'd like to track down sooner or later would be-
H. bicknellii, nabawanensis, and oreogena

[VFOVkZBj]

If you can't find the hoyas you're looking for over the net, let me know and I can give you the e-mail address of someone from my local OS. She's grows a huge amount of hoyas and I would be surprised if she didn't own some or all of the ones you're looking for.

[fuslkdhfma]

I've tried tracking down the ones I lust for and came up empty handed. Well, I found a nursery over in Australia that had the H. bicknellii, nabawanensis, and oreogena but not worth it for me to place an overseas order for only three cuttings once I add the cost of the inspection and phytos so I was hoping to find them somewhere locally or at least in the US. Please do send your friend my lust list. If she's growing those four I want, I'll buy. Thanks for offering.

Here's what I have in the house (some are recently rooted cuttings) but with the purchase of these 4 I have been wanting, I'm officially out of space for Hoya-

albiflora
archboldiana
arnottiana
australis ssp. sanae
australis ‘Lizard Isle’
bella “Kentiana”
bella lancelota sbsp lancelota
bella “Sulawesii”
carnusa
carnusa “Bilobata”
cambra
clandestina
coronaria
dolichosparte
eitapensis
greenii
imperialis
‘Iris Marie’
javanica
lacunosa var. pallidiflora
linearis
longifolia
macgillivrayi
magnifica
monetteae
multiflora
multiflora variegata
pimenteliana
pottsii
Purpurea-fusca
thompsonii
plus two that have missing tags

[VFOVkZBj]

O.K. I sent her an e-mail. I don't know when I'll hear from her, however as they were on a trip to Russia and they may not be back, yet.

[fuslkdhfma]

No great rush. I'm very appreciative that there may be a local source for the plants I've wanted to buy.

[VFOVkZBj]

I just heard from her. She said she belongs to a hoya society and she's only ever seen one of your listed species in publications. So, they are very, very rare. She doesn't have any of them. Sorry!

[diegogo]

nice. i have a small collection with kerrii, carnosa, lacunosa and serpens.
they're pretty cool.
my kerrii blooms like mad frequently though i was only able to bloom the carnosa for the first time this year. i think it may be in too much light and i may water it too frequently...

[weO1bVp1]

I have a 2 year old hoya kerri cutting that just sits there

[trilochana.nejman]

That is quite a list you have. David Liddle's Nursery in Australia is the only place to get hoya with any hope of having the right name on the plant. Order from anyone else and you have better than 50% chance of a mis-labelled plant. I refuse to join Dave's Garden or the other forums. Too much mindless nattering. However they do regularly put together a group order to Liddle, which I have taken advantage of. I have about 30 Hoya myself. This is about 25 more than I have room for. I'll be selling a few extras at the WOS show in Milwaukee this weekend. (don't tell Bil they are not orchids)
Have we met through the Illinois Orchid Society? or the WOS? I'm in NE IL too. Private Message if you like.

[insightmike]

Ted Green is your man.

www.rare-hoyas.com

[Cd9JfGHR]

Very beautiful and different! That is quite a list!

I have polyneura, serpens and bella.

[Cd9JfGHR]

Is this one a bush or vine type Hoya?

[fuslkdhfma]

Hello Leo Schordje, we might have met since we're from the same area although I'm not a member of the Illinois Orchid Society or whatever the WOS is. I pretty much stick to my family and native plant folk but I do volunteer work in the community and particularly enjoy working with children and seniors. I've spoken to 17 senior groups in the past 12 months. Working with seniors was new to me and I must admit I have thoroughly enjoyed myself. Most of the people in senior housing are into container and balcony gardening utilizing readily available native plants to attract birds and butterflies but some are in assisted living and are very interested in attracting wildlife. Most assisted living centers have a community garden where everyone can fiddle around to their hearts content. Other than that, I volunteered to work on some educational programming for kids so perhaps our paths have crossed at a native plant conference or seminar?

The blunt of my plants above came from David or were cuttings of plants that my girlfriends ordered from him. He sends nice healthy pest-free cuttings and I never have to worry about him screwing around with phytos and such. He has never mislabeled a plant on me to the best of my knowledge but... he is selling an odorata that is suspect, could actually be cembra I am told. People are human, they make mistakes and he has an incredible inventory. I placed my order to him this last time with two girlfriends from a native plant group (ironic that the people who plant natives outside have so many exotics inside). I should have ordered those lust-for hoyas from him a few months ago but I was already ordering about 8 cuttings and didn't have any more space to lay them out to root them. Incidentally, there is at least one other source that I know of where one's odds of getting a mislabled plant would be about the equivalent of receiving a mislabeled plant from David however she is a private collector and sticks to herself and a handful of friends. She's the one who got me hooked on hoya for my home.

I'm afraid I don't know who Bill is. Is he a member here and I'm just not matching up his real name to his user name?

Thank you Lance Birk, I will check out your link.

[fuslkdhfma]

From the Rare Hoyas site-
WHAT’S NEW - WHAT’S COMING UP -

"This Feb-March '07 trip to Palawan Island, Philippines, was a social/touristy success for Carol Noel, Rudy and Anne Bachmann and my wife Dorothy and me but a failure for collecting, zero, zilch, nada! It is amazing how the areas have changed in the past 7 years and didn't find a single H. imperialis or D. imbricata in places where there were many before. We didn't find H. curtisii and H. darwinii at St. Paul's Bay."

"So, we went to Fiji where we were successful in collecting all 4 of the Fijian species: H. diptera, H. vitiensis, H. australis and the long sought after H. megalantha. We found them all within a 20 mile stretch on the island of Taveuni. The H. megalantha we found in the exact place where I had searched 3 times before, at 3,200 ft., but this time there was ONE, wilting flower still in bloom (end of the season) and that lead me to a whole group of the plants. You should have seen this 84 year old climbing a 25 foot cliff above the road to get it!"

"We also found, H. diptera, H. vitiensis and maybe H. megalantha (no flowers) part way up (at 2,700 ft.) Mt. Victoria (Tomanivi) on Viti Levu. That hike was easy compared to climbing that cliff on Taveuni."

I'm sure he's a wonderful person and I thank you for the referral however I will not knowingly purchase plants from anyone who field collects and it would appear this individual actively field collects. Lord knows these plants are easy enough to propagate. It is my understanding David Liddle offers cuttings from plants he propagates himself based on photos I have seen of his nursery and comments made by others who have been ordering from him. If you have knowledge that Mr. Liddle is an active field collector, please do share as me and my friends will never order from him again. I'm sure even his original sources were wild collected plants but it seems rather odd that in this day and age someone is out actively collecting plants from the wild that are already in cultivation that could be purchased then propagated for the green industry.