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Old 05-22-2006, 06:10 PM   #1
Pharmaciest2007

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Of course.
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Old 05-23-2006, 05:43 PM   #2
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Old 05-24-2006, 05:52 AM   #3
VIAGRAENLINOBARATOCAMPRAR

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Old 05-24-2006, 06:34 AM   #4
Ervntewc

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Corporate arts funding is often a necessary evil in this day and age, and I suppose TD deserves some props for stepping up to the plate. On the other hand, I had the unfortunate experience of being a TD customer some years ago, and found them to be a spectacularly useless and vindictive shower of bastards.

Ultimately I just stopped using that account and abandoned it (it was a business account I used to pay out wages to sidemen on a gig I was leader on). TD sucked up the 60 or so bucks left it in for 'service charges' (although, since the account was inactive, they weren't actually rendering any service) and ultimately wound up sending me a bill a year later for 30some bucks. I asked them what the consequences would be if I refused to pay and was informed that the bank would refuse to do business with me unless I paid up. You can imagine what a heartbreak that was.

So, yes, it's wonderfull that TD is sponsoring the arts. But when it comes to individual artists as customers, they treat you just like everyone else who's not a big corporate client, namely like chumps who can be fleeced at will.
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Old 05-24-2006, 05:08 PM   #5
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The post office should get some props for (indirectly) supporting the arts in Vancouver. Eh, Brian?

I don't know much about TD & how they treat customers, but the once friendliest VanCity is the most conservative, assoholic outfit of them all. No more community vibe, in my experience of dealing with them for 15 plus years. Imho, financial institutions are all the same, pretty much, CCEC being a possible exception.

I love to see socially responsible business support the arts as much as possible. I agree with Nou, that funding is scarce, so it's necessary to view degrees of social responsibility, as opposed to in absolutes. Until then, support live music in your community, while it's still around... and if you've got some money stashed, kick in.
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Old 05-24-2006, 05:24 PM   #6
Ervntewc

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I should probably add that during the many years that Dumaurier was a festival sponsor, I had no qualms whatsoever about cashing their checks, and in fact often defended them in much the same manner that Nou does with TD. The hostility towards DuMaurier was often quite intense, given the fact that they're, you know...merchants of death. (I remember quite a few faux hippies and trustafarians getting on my case for taking money from cancer merchants. And me playing a wind instrument all all. The irony, blah blah blah).

That said, it's good to keep in mind that these are corporations, not charitable arts organizations. They do this for advertising and tax writeoffs. I won't be getting the warm fuzzies every time I walk by a TD branch.

And yeah, Zula. Other banks are no better. You should get a load of the crap I have to put up with down here regarding my accounts with Chase Manhattan.
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:52 PM   #7
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:04 AM   #8
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Back when DuMaurier presented all the jazz festivals, I had a Montreal Jazz Festival T-shirt. The only problem with it was written across the back in big letters, "DUMAURIER LTD." I certainly didn't want to walk around advertising them, so I got a friend of mine who worked making T-shirts to add right below it in the exact same lettering and colouring the words "KILLS". Then I was proud to wear it at all jazz fest events.
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:30 AM   #9
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Government funding for the arts is no better and often worse. I lived in the subsidized world of Amsterdam for 13 years and the jazz scene there is SICK. Almost all the clubs are subsidized, non-profit orgs ('stichting' in Dutch) that have a commission who decide who gets the gigs and the money but the commissions are the inside circle of deep Dutch, paranoid, protectionists who think that foreigners are a threat. There is an infrastructure of institutionalized corruption, when a group from Holland tours you can be sure they are heavily subsidized, even there fee, they will take a small fee from the promoter/festival/venue but they don't need it because they have their bases covered already in the form of "structured funding" . This is completely unfair and illegal, The Dutch break the market. Last year I was negotiating a gig in Seattle, the guy heard my CD and wanted to book our band but because we were based in Amsterdam he figured he didn't have to pay us, I asked for a tiny fee of 1000 dollars (all in) for a sextet, (I figured we could do the cheap gig and not take a hotel to save money and just drive to the next town that night). The promoter was shocked and said the fee was way too much ! he told me that he doesn't pay the ICP (Dutch big band) that much and they're famous and pull a crowd. Unless you are independently wealthy or heavily subsidized it is impossible to compete with these Dutch bands. Have you noticed how many Dutch bands are touring internationally all the time, this is not because there is more talent in their little country. Actually the really interesting players in Amsterdam are the foreigners, who make up, by far the majority of the scene there but you won't see these guys playing often Internationally.

There are many, many great players in Italy, Spain, eastern European countries etc. but these counties don't subsidize there bands like the Dutch, Germans and Scandinavians do, so audiences in North America who never traveled in Europe get the wrong impression of jazz in Europe, there is a lot more jazz in Europe than the heavily subsidized, northern European bands that tour Internationally. not to mention Africa. It's often cheaper for a festival in North America to book a big band from Holland than to book a local quartet.

The Dutch also overly subsidize there tomato farmers creating a situation where it is cheaper to buy a bland, no taste, water balloon grown in a green house under artificial light in Holland than it is to buy a much, much better tomato grown locally in warmer, poorer countries. This story makes the news, the same thing happens in jazz but who cares.
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Old 05-25-2006, 11:59 PM   #10
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Old 05-28-2006, 05:29 PM   #11
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Isn't it ironic that you play/listen to a style of music created by people you would most likely have called "boy" and "joe"?
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Old 05-28-2006, 10:50 PM   #12
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Precisely who is that remark aimed at Mr. Hurwitz?

And what do you mean by it?
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Old 05-29-2006, 04:22 PM   #13
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This thread is retarded.
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Old 05-29-2006, 04:38 PM   #14
Ervntewc

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Maybe so, but I still have no idea what you're talking about.

I once met Dexter Gordon in San Francisco. I wasn't the least bit inclined to address him as "boy" and if I had I likely would have got my ass kicked.
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Old 05-29-2006, 05:26 PM   #15
Pharmaciest2007

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Cut the crap!

Whatever the point of Kropotkin's original post, some comments were interesting, at least to me. I'm hoping for another point of view on Jack Jarmush's post, for example. If none of this interests you, mhurwitz, well . . . that's what the left button on your mouse is for.
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Old 05-29-2006, 09:39 PM   #16
Ervntewc

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My overall take on Jack's post is that it sounds like a pretty sweet deal if you're a Dutch musician. For others, not so much.

It's all in the perspective. When I first joined the musician's union in 1976, the older guys used to talk about the days when AFM locals had 'residency requirements' for gigs lasting longer than one night. This was done to prevent touring musicians from coming to town and copping all the `sweet 'location' gigs, like theater pit work and nightclub house-band residencies.

It was amazing how the perspective changed once a player had 'waited out his card.' It went from "those local bastards who are Bogarting all the sweet location gigs" to "those touring bastards who are trying to steal our pit work."

It's all a matter of perspective.

A clique is only a bad thing when you're not in it.
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Old 06-01-2006, 11:05 AM   #17
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Old 06-01-2006, 09:04 PM   #18
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Old 06-02-2006, 11:30 AM   #19
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John,

I don't feel like arguing this subject neither (at least not on this forum)........ but the Netherlands are on the "slippery slope" and yes, they are much more xenophobic than the US believe it or not. BTW in the Netherlands the musicians union is almost non existent. you would have to be there to believe what is happening.

All I'm saying is the next time you (audience) see a Dutch band promoted as "important music" or from the "talent laden" Amsterdam, listen to the music with your own ears and realize that the so called important group is actually breaking the market by bringing the fees down. When a festival wants to save money all they have to do is book Dutch bands and promote it as great music and the audience just eats the hype. It's bad for the music.

I moved to Paris a year ago, the scene there is much better and fair. most of the foreigners are leaving Holland, it is the only country in the EU with a negative immigration, just as they wanted it. As a friend of mine from Serbia puts it - What happened in Yugoslavia can happen anywhere and within a few weeks. I will stop here because this is a political discussion not really suited for this forum but I would like to say that most of the people in the US openly criticize their governments questionable policies giving hope for change but in the Netherlands all they do is point their finger at the US even though in many ways Dutch policies are worse.

peace bro,
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Old 06-02-2006, 06:01 PM   #20
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Back to the irony. How’s this:

Take the richest province in Canada, head South to the jewel and finacial capital of said province. A city where the average home rises in value $500 per day. A city so bloated with cash that pan handlers scoff at anything less than a ten dollar bill and laugh outright at the offer of “spare change”. A place in which wages are so high, if you can swing a hammer, you are in dire need of a financial planner. I’m talking about the oil capital of Canada, our answer to Dubai, Calgary.

It seems with all it’s riches and stunning cash flow, not enough sponsers could be found for this years jazz fest so, heads bowed, “2006 Calgary Jazz Festival R.I.P.”
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