[intendepods]

Did anyone catch the premiere? I don't have HBO, but I've been hearing a lot about the show through magazine and online reviews. It seems rather mixed. Being of the millenial generation, I thought the show would be my kind of thing, but now I'm not so sure. Sounds like the type of show that's filled with inside jokes about hipsters in NYC.

[Nidsstese]

I did. I had mixed feelings. I am going to watch the next one before I form any concrete opinions.

[baronaaba]

Did anyone catch the premiere? I don't have HBO, but I've been hearing a lot about the show through magazine and online reviews. It seems rather mixed. Being of the millenial generation, I thought the show would be my kind of thing, but now I'm not so sure. Sounds like the type of show that's filled with inside jokes about hipsters in NYC.

That's exactly what it was! You can actually watch the first episode for free on YouTube if you're interested. I enjoyed the episode, I guess, but it wasn't what I was expecting really. I'm not sure what my thoughts are on it yet. The characters aren't particularly likeable and I was really kind of bothered by the main character eating a cupcake in the bathtub. The acting was great so I'm kind of drawn in by that. I'll have to see where the story goes and how the characters develop before I can decide if I like the show or not.

[IACJdKfU]

This show! Agh. I'm so ambivalent about it. On the one hand, I laughed and was charmed by the totally hateful and narcissistic main character. It's totally okay that she's a terrible person, most comedies are. BUT. I'm not convinced the writer-director-actress-producer-ITGIRL Lena Dunham knows just how terrible she is. The self deprecation feels like knee-jerk hipsterism instead of genuine and true self-loathing. Plus, I know this is totally unfair, but those girls (characters and talent) are all the girls I hated in college and all the girls I hated who floated through film school and cushy internships into priceless opportunities -- the ones who never really understand how hard it is for outsiders to do the same thing they are doing without the trust funds, rich parents, influential friends and the class entitlement.

Then again, I've only watched one episode. But it's TRIGGERING!

And? Lena Dunham has a funny, strong voice. But oh my god she is not the Voice of Her Generation or the creator of a Revolutionary TV Show, etc. The praise for this show is ridiculously overblown.

[q9h9pPne]

I liked it a lot!

Maybe I just have too much faith in her, but I take all the pretentious shit she says as satire of people with that attitude and entitlement. Also, maybe I'm just secretly as much of a dirtbag as her, but I kind of always thought that any artist had that same sense of "voice of a generation" self-importance? I'm someone who's wanted to be a writer for a long time, and I always figured that you have to be at least a little bit conceited to think you have something to say that the world should hear. I thought it was less of a self-assertion and more of a go at immature artists--"Okay, I want to write for a living, how do I communicate that to people and get them to take it seriously? I guess by likening myself to Flaubert and explaining how I'm the voice of a generation."

A few of her tweets that I've seen are pretty similar to the show, i.e. TMI confessions of her flaws. To me she seems really aware of her short-comings but totally willing to exploit, exaggerate, and laugh at them. It does feel a little manufactured, but it's also really refreshing to me. I do think a lot of the backlash seems to be from male critics who aren't used to leading women who aren't Hollywood-gorgeous and aren't apologetically trying to cover up as many imperfections as possible (I saw some dude's review that said she was like a "porn" actress because she's "playing herself," lol whut). Not saying that resembles anyone here, just an observation I've made of the buzz around the Interbutts.

[Nidsstese]

This show! Agh. I'm so ambivalent about it. On the one hand, I laughed and was charmed by the totally hateful and narcissistic main character. It's totally okay that she's a terrible person, most comedies are. BUT. I'm not convinced the writer-director-actress-producer-ITGIRL Lena Dunham knows just how terrible she is. The self deprecation feels like knee-jerk hipsterism instead of genuine and true self-loathing. Plus, I know this is totally unfair, but those girls (characters and talent) are all the girls I hated in college and all the girls I hated who floated through film school and cushy internships into priceless opportunities -- the ones who never really understand how hard it is for outsiders to do the same thing they are doing without the trust funds, rich parents, influential friends and the class entitlement.

YES YES YES. I have seen this show before! It's called EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE starring the Entitled Assholes I Deal With Daily. Maybe if I weren't an artisty type in NY I would relate more...

Here's my major beef right now: it seems like she's making a show about her and her friends. That's fine. BUT - she is making a show about herself and her friends under the guise that they are not actually rich. Hannah, the main character, is being 100% supported by her presumably not-rich parents. They are both professors (LOL, yeah, sure they make enough money to fully support their 20-something year old daughter. Even in Brooklyn with a roomie), and they are clearly not supposed to be wealthy, thus the cutting her off. Here is the thing though - if your parents can actually fully support you into your twenties (as well as through school, presumably) - YOU ARE STILL WEALTHY. Are you "rich"? No - although I found out that a lot of people consider hundred-thousandaires to be rich, which is interesting- but you are plenty wealthy. IMO, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference whether you have a multi-million dollar trust fund or your folks are well-to-do upper middle: you are still speaking exclusively from a white privilege viewpoint, and pretending to speak for young women actually struggling (I realize I am somewhat projecting here) in the recession feels completely disingenous to me. Don't pretend like these girls are not actually wealthy. They are VERY wealthy. I admire that she wants to make Hannah unlikeable off the bat...and I'm giving it a chance, but holy shit. ALSO TRIGGERED. Plus, the casting nepotism is fucking barf worthy.

white trash - I am a writer, and I sincerely truly hope that if the words "I am the Voice of a Generation" ever came out of my mouth in a way that was even 1% not joking, someone would smack me directly in the mouth. There is a difference between an irrepressible desire to express yourself through writing and being a conceited, self-important twat.

ETA: I am happy, though, that Dunham is exploring the truly abysmal sexual experiences that a lot of my friends and 20 somethings experience. I hope its not ALL bad, because that's a lie, but a whole lot of it is. That scene made me CRINGE.

[q9h9pPne]

To be clear, I'm not saying it's okay for anyone to seriously think or claim they are a Voice of My Generation (VoMG). I just think that scene is a funny depiction of the post-grad liberal arts thought process, especially in a stage of trying to figure out how to be an artist in 2012. No, not all or even most post-grad English majors are like that, I'm sure, but I worked with a guy who was similarly conceited about his writing, only he went with an unspoken "I'm the next Hunter S. Thompson/Jack Kerouac" instead of "I'm a VoMG." I don't think that guy was a total douchebag, I think he just didn't understand how to become or market himself as an artist in today's world. I'm hoping that, as the show goes on, Hannah slowly figures out how to be less of a privileged, clueless moron, or is at least confronted with that fact. But we'll see, I guess.

I can see how some people find the whole thing undermined by the fact that Lena Dunham herself is artistically successful beyond all feasible possibility for an ordinary person. And I do think her sudden, totally unforeseen "canon-ness" is a bit weird.

ETA: Maybe I'm willing to be so forgiving because it's the closest thing to my own personal experience that I've ever seen in mainstream media. I don't come from an affluent or even an educated background, but the fact that Hannah is not super sexy or tragically beautiful, does not have 50,000 virtues to make up for the fact that she's not hot, has an artistic goal she has no clue how to achieve, and may be the only person in the world besides her BFF who thinks she has talent-- that all hits home for me, enough that I guess I can ignore Dunham being a media darling ATM.

[Nidsstese]

ETA: Maybe I'm willing to be so forgiving because it's the closest thing to my own personal experience that I've ever seen in mainstream media. I don't come from an affluent or even an educated background, but the fact that Hannah is not super sexy or tragically beautiful, does not have 50,000 virtues to make up for the fact that she's not hot, has an artistic goal she has no clue how to achieve, and may be the only person in the world besides her BFF who thinks she has talent-- that all hits home for me, enough that I guess I can ignore Dunham being a media darling ATM.

Wouldn't that have all felt much easier if you came from money though? See, your show would be interesting to me. If Hannah were ACTUALLY broke, the show would be interesting. But she's not. I have to try to move past that.

[IACJdKfU]

Wouldn't that have all felt much easier if you came from money though? See, your show would be interesting to me. If Hannah were ACTUALLY broke, the show would be interesting. But she's not. I have to try to move past that.

Don't move past it yet. Look at this first:




OK, back to moving past our biases...

[Nidsstese]

my friend posted that on fbook yesterday. I peed a little. I love "Adam Sandler's Roommate". Ugh. And don't even get me going on how Judd Apatow is using this and Bridesmaids to be like "LOOK! I really do like women! As long as they act exactly like my male characters do! HAHAHHA".

/rant.

[IACJdKfU]

I thought the same thing about Judd Apatow's motives!

Knocked Up, NEVER FORGET.

[viiagrag]

I was really looking forward to this show and after the first episode, I think I want to like it more than I actually do. I'm going to give it a few more episodes before I form any concrete opinions. I thought parts of it were amusing. That sex scene reminded me of the movie Kids. None of the characters are especially likeable, but I guess that's the whole point? I don't know, we'll see. I have never heard of Lena Dunham prior to this show.

[freeringtonesioo]

That poster is priceless. I'm already seriously prejudiced against this series from all your descriptions. Thankfully I have so much good stuff to watch and catch up on at the moment that I feel entirely justifed in pretending it doesn't exist.

[Nidsstese]

It's not about likeability for me, it's about caring. I can hate a character but still care. I don't particularly care about Hannah yet, and I'm interested to see if I will grow to care about her at all. Honestly, I didn't care about any of those people.

[IACJdKfU]

Good point!

I recently started Curb Your Enthusiasm and Larry David's semi-autobiographical character is a good comparison to the Lena Dunham character. Curb's Larry David is one of the more flawed characters on TV but somehow it makes me care about him all the more. He never feels smug or oblivious.

Haha, all this meta talk over one episode. Clearly the show hit a nerve. Though I don't think anyone would particularly care about it if HBO and the critics hadn't crowned Lena Dunham The Voice of Her Generation out of freaking nowhere.

[Nidsstese]

It's interesting, though. If Dunham's characters were male...would we like them more? That seems to be the main question for me. I am examining my own internalized shit (of which there is plenty...I am reprogramming myself, or attempting to), and I can't help but wonder about that.

The other problem is that she has written NONE of these girls to be aspirational figures, which is both interesting and tricky. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, there was at least ONE character on SATC who made you stop for a minute and go "she's fucked up, but I kind of want her life/want to be her". Same with Mad Men - Don Draper is not what you'd call "likeable", but he is aspirational. Same with Larry David - yeah, he's a dick, but he is uber rich and successful. These gals are just...there. They are not who we want to be or who we aspire to...but maybe that's the point. Maybe they will BECOME something to aspire to? I dunno. It's an interesting trajectory if that's what she's trying to do, but I've absolutely got to give a crap. Right now I don't.

It is really nice that these girls eat real food, though.

[IACJdKfU]

I had trouble with Entourage for similar reasons despite a couple of the sidekicks and secondary characters being far more likable than anyone in this show so far.

(now that I'm thinking of it, if they introduced an Ari Gold type it'd improve things a lot)

[intendepods]

The characters aren't particularly likeable and I was really kind of bothered by the main character eating a cupcake in the bathtub.

I was reading the comments on Entertainment Weekly's site, and a lot of people had the same opinion about that scene you mentioned. Was she really eating a cupcake in the bathtub while a friend shaved her legs? Seriously?

[hoarrimilsora]

Err, I've eaten while in the bathtub before. But not while someone else shaved my legs.

[Nidsstese]

Yes. And it was as twee as you'd imagine.

H - i SO AGREE. This show needs an Ari Gold desperately.