[Beerinkol]

And then I'm reminded what "Cultural Revolution" and the "Great Leap Forward" and "Let a Hundred Flowers Bloom" meant in practice to Mao and to the people underthe thumb of the cadres. Uncounted millions ground up in the machine.

[PhillipHer]

Originally posted by Vic
Elke, the Afghans fighting against the Taliban did so according to their religion too. There are many interpretations of Islam, in fact in some of the more liberal surroundings the chaos seems worse than in Judaism: just about every mullah can - in theory - create and preach his own brand of Islam and still be considered a mullah, a fact that greatly hinders communication between "Muslim" immigrant communities and the authorities or other religious institution in the West. You are right, of course. Islam couldn't possibly have survived for as long as it has, and prospered as well as it has at one time, if it was a static, "worst possible religion in the world". What I was trying to say is that it is the communicator's responsibility to communicate in such a way that the audience understands.

[MannoFr]

The main fault line seems to be at this moment Wahhabis against everyone else (notably the Sufis). They are always the more visible ones, apparently because traditional Islam has a rather loose structure, while the modern, aggressive forms of it are tightly organized.

[S.T.D.]

Doesn't a thousand years seem terribly long for a Protestant Reformation? I mean c'mon guys, make up your minds - either you're different or your're the same. If you're different then stop trying to kill each other and if you're the same, go to your rooms until you learn to behave more responsibly to each other.

Honestly, all this eggshell walking and analysis of our analysis of the discussion of someone's critique of our analysis about it. Do I need to know all there is to know of Shinto, Buddism, or the Tao, Zoroasterianism, Ba'hai or the people of the purple comet in order to deal with them. If they go to war with me because I didn't arch my left eyebrow the right way while genuflecting to the east then what's the difference?

Trust me, I can have meaningful discussions with the most serious Lubavitch rabbi or rebbetsin who think I'm probably close to apikorsim (heathen bastard) anyway and they don't lunge over the table and punch me in the face. I can put the most militant Southern Baptist in the same room as a Catholic and the odds are we won't have to declare the contruction of a DMZ and call in some international observers.

But somehow......Walk down the street of your local Sunnitown and mutter something about that 11th Century Shiite mullah who 'probably got it right' and we're picking up nerve gas corpses from the side of the road.

[Peptobismol]

Nothing really I just think it's futile. I don't think honesty or truth or accuracy or coherent view or reason or logic or history have much to do with it. I don't really need know WHY they are straight faced pathological liers, merely that they are. I think facts are what you make them and the facts on the ground are so disputed that it's futile to even try to agree what they are.

Whether there were 87,459 Jews living in Palistine in 1945 or 112,345 seems to make a world of difference to some people and they'll fight to death to post and certify one number over the other. Whether Arafat meant what he meant when he said such and such or is a trip to the inner heart that doesn't lead anywhere.

Our Dickensian hairsplitting of Res242 (and the 103 others that takeo typically lists) takes on almost Talmudic distinction but denies the basic undeniable fact that Jews in Israel are imperiled regardless of how many the EU is willing to sacrifice before they will acknowledge it. There are no facts and why that is the case takes on less and less significance because actions matter, results matter.

In normal life when one negotiates something it's not that important if your opposite is telling the truth or if you know they are or not. What is important is that there is some recourse in the case where somebody tries to screw you or back out. It doens't matter whether the person you sold your house to even has the money (more or less) as long as there is a way for you to recover damages or back out of the deal or do something to protect yourself.

Same here - what does jihad mean? How is that important? What does any slogan mean, what does any advertising message mean. The words are not important only the utterance of them is.

Does it mean 'struggle'
http://tariq.bitshop.com/simplyIslam/jihad.htm
or this one which is quite different
http://utut.essortment.com/whatisjihad_rerr.htm
or this one
http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/jihad.html

...And we leave the other term which I forget as the one that refers to armed fighting? What's the difference what the name is?