[Kghikeds]

My dogs do have outlets for their prey drive. We hunt hogs not other dogs.

some people might call that cruel. I dont think it is but the argument can and has been made. Those hogs have killed dogs before. Im going to play devils advocate: Why put your dog in danger knowing that a hog could kill it? not to mention these dogs wouldnt be able to deal with hogs as well as they do without their past fighting history.

[cyslespitocop]

Everyone is entitled to there own opinion. If someone feels dog matching should be legal than thay should be able to voice there opinion. Voiceing that opinion is in no way an admition of guilt, wrongdoing or unlawfullness. It is simply an opinion

[cefunonge]

My dogs do have outlets for their prey drive. We hunt hogs not other dogs.

ah ok. thanks for the clear up.

[XU8i6ysK]

My problem with people like you, the H$U$, PETA, is that you feel your opinion is the right one and you feel the need to force your opinion on everyone else in the world. You are the type that thinks smoking is wrong so you outlaw smoking everywhere.... you don't like dog matching so you outlaw it everywhere.... you don't like people spanking their children so you make it assault to discipline your child.


Congrats on killing yet another freedom in America, I am sure the people of Louisiana are so glad you stepped in to tell them what they are allowed to do with their property. Chickens, Dogs, Cats, horses and cows... are private property. They are owned.... I am my dogs' OWNER... I have papers that declare me their OWNER, not their friend, equal, daddy, or anything else... owner. They are property. Now I love my dogs..but they aren't my family. If one bites someone unprovoked... I'll bury them. If there is another bad yard fight and a dog is hurt badly.. I'll bury it.

Cock Fighting like dog fighting when done right is a great sport. I personally believe a chicken... like a fish.. has a brain too small to feel pain. I have seen someone set a mirror up in their yard near a rooster and watched it almost beat itself to death trying to get at the reflection.... they are game little buggers... stupid but game.

You claim to understand history..... then if you understand the history of this breed you'd understand how dog matching made this breed the great breed it is today. It is great BECAUSE of the matching... not in spite of it. And if matching is completely done away with sub par animals will be breeding more and more and diluting the superior genes that were passed great pit dogs to their off spring..and tightened up through culling and selective breeding. If dog matching ceases to be.. (which it won't ever)... then the breed that we love will began to change... and not for the better.

But then again..... thats just my opinion... I don't feel the need to force it on anyone or campaign with the scum of the earth like HSUS and PETA.

Just so there is no question.

I am one of those hypocritical people. I believe that it should be my choice on marijuana just as much as I feel that dog matching is cruel and disgusting. I feel the same about chickens and I actually worked hard to have cock fighting stopped in Louisiana. Successfully too I might add. There is a slight difference though. I don't sleep with the chickens and I still love em fried.

My dogs are a part of my family. They are not property or a tool to be used at my whim.They are living breathing creatures that have feelings and who want nothing more than to live their lives out in peace.
I understand that history is what it is but that is just what it is....... HISTORY.

[Ubgvuncd]

Another thing, like Jelet stated earlier about the comparison of marijuana. It's illegal and I'm sure some people here smoke weed. I don't smoke weed, but I do see some medicinal uses for it. Those people that smoke weed are probably the same people here who are against dogmatching. Wouldn't you say that is so hypocritical?

I know I'm gonna be blasted here, but most people who smoke weed are the hippies that think it is cruelty to animals. That's your opinion. Like the saying goes "opinions are like assholes, we all have one."

Hell, no!!! I wouldn't say that is hypocritical. We're talking two entirely different things here, IMO.

Most people who smoke weed are the hippies? In California, the use of marijuana is legal for medicinal purposes, the types of people who smoke it vary greatly. There really is no stereotype for your typical marijuana user here in California. There is no typical ethnic group, age group, income group, etc.

[XU8i6ysK]

The average person that smokes pot in AMERICA.... does so because they like the feeling they get when they are high.

[furious1]

The average person that smokes pot in AMERICA.... does so because they like the feeling they get when they are high.

Tru dat, but the wannabe hippies who smoke pot are the ones that support PETA and the such. Again, that's my opinion...lol. I have nothing against people who do it. I just don't smoke the sticky.

[i6mbwwdh]

I personally believe a chicken... like a fish.. has a brain too small to feel pain.

All animals feel pain. It is illogical to believe animals could function without this capacity. One quick Google on fish:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2983045.stm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0430161242.htm
http://www.livescience.com/animals/0...-pain-too.html
http://news.mongabay.com/2009/0506-hance_fishpain.html

Chickens were somewhat trickier:

A study on analgesia in birds:
It is easily accepted that birds are able to feel pain. Studies with chickens suggest that pain perception is mediated by neural
pathways and neurotransmitters similar to mammals [1-3]. Yet research for the avian patient is still needed to identify
effective techniques to evaluate pain in these species and the reduction of pain through the use of analgesic agents. Another study, this time on pain perception in fish again but with this to say about birds:
Pain in vertebrates such as birds and mammals is perceived by two classes of nociceptive nerves (i) A-delta fibres which are slow conducting, small, myelinated fibres, and (ii) C fibres which are slower conducting, smaller and unmyelinated. Both of these classes of fibre can be found in the trout trigeminal nerve, this is the main nerve innervating the face and head of vertebrates (Sneddon 2002). This one's quite interesting because it discusses the belief that animals with small brains do not experience pain the same way other animals do.
Both fear and pain can cause suffering. When pain is being studied, experiments must be designed to separate the variable of fear from the variable of pain. Some investigators claim that a sharp cut off line exists between those animals who experience pain and suffering, from those who do not. These arguments are based on the assumption that the capacity to suffer is related to the size and complexity of the brain, i.e., small brained animals feel less pain and potentially suffer less than animals with larger more complex brains. This paper refutes these claims and explains the concept that all hierarchical levels of the nervous system are built according to the same functional principles. The ability of an animal to suffer from pain may be related to the amount of associative neural circuitry linking sub-cortical structures to higher levels of the nervous system. A reasonable criteria for assessing pain induced suffering is does the animal actively seek pain relief. Realistically it's a moot point for whether or not they perceive pain as we do, they have some reaction that functions as such and I don't feel experiencing pain or not justifies anything - even from the hypothetical point of view of supporting cock fighting.

If nothing else, chicken's experience of pain is well-documented enough for a study on pain perception to be based upon studying them:
In humans, psychological manipulations such as hypnosis, behavioural modifications, relaxation training and cognitive behaviour therapy have all been used to reduce pain intensity....

Birds are naturally prone to articular gout and the model we have developed mimics acute gouty attacks in a single joint. Experimental sodium urate arthritis produces a tonically painful inflammation lasting for at least 3h during which time the animals show pain-related behaviours.... OK, so I went slightly overboard there. I find it interesting, and I find poor reasoning disappointing whether I agree or disagree with an argument.

As for the OP: I do not support dog matches. I do believe that "old time dogmen" generally were a better breed than the pathetic pieces of crap matching dogs now but the glorified way some people view it is just ridiculous IMO.

And not to derail but contrary to the apparent beliefs of some people on here, there are people in the world who form opinions on a case-by-case basis, not just based upon stereotype.

[XU8i6ysK]

Fenris... I was going on this scientific study about fish and their ability to feel pain....


Fish lack the brains to feel pain, says the latest school of thought - smh.com.au

An academic study comparing the nervous systems and responses of fish and mammals has found that fishes' brains are not sufficiently developed to allow them to sense pain or fear.
The study is the work of James D Rose, a professor of zoology and physiology at the University of Wyoming, who has been working on questions of neurology for almost 30 years. He has examined data on the responses of animals to pain and stimulus from scores of studies collected over the past 15 years.
His report, published in the American journal Reviews of Fisheries Science, has concluded that awareness of pain depends on functions of specific regions of the cerebral cortex which fish do not possess.
Professor Rose, 60, said that previous studies which had indicated that fish can feel pain had confused nociception - responding to a threatening stimulus - with feeling pain.


As far as whether roosters feel pain or not.... I don't know. But I am basing my thoughts on what I have seen either......

1. They don't feel pain

2. They are too stupid to stop doing something that hurts them... Like I said I watched a rooster almost beat himself to death trying to fight a reflection of itself once.

Now that might not be scientific studies... but it works enough for me. Gamedogs and gamecocks are unlike any other creatures in the world...and I admire them both!

[Sellorect]

I think IMO its stupid to assume roosters dont feel pain. How would they know if they were hurt then? I am pretty sure they have nervous system.

[EtellaObtaite]

I believe that some people defend Legal Dog fighting/matching, and some people would like to see dog fighting/matching legalized, but I don't believe anyone defends or promotes Illegal dog fighting/matching, and I don't believe anyone is encouraging another to commit an illegal act.

[XU8i6ysK]

I don't think seeing a rooster as not being able to feel pain is anymore stupid than saying a fish can't feel pain.... I can't imagine that a rooster is much more advanced in the brain than a fish is. Like I said.. i am not saying that roosters don't feel pain... maybe they just have a very high pain tolerance...I don't know. But the study I posted said fish can't feel pain they lack the brain matter for it.... so in my opinion it could very well be possible for roosters to fall in the same category.

I think IMO its stupid to assume roosters dont feel pain. How would they know if they were hurt then? I am pretty sure they have nervous system.

[herrdwq]

I believe that some people defend Legal Dog fighting/matching, and some people would like to see dog fighting/matching legalized, but I don't believe anyone defends or promotes Illegal dog fighting/matching, and I don't believe anyone is encouraging another to commit an illegal act.

sounds about right to me... Good post Jean.

Vic

---------- Post added at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------

Do I think how mike Vic culled his dogs was wrong?? Yes I do.. He is what i call a street/thug dogfighter. Not a real dogmen. I do not support people like mike vic. Only true dogmen . LEt it be past or present. -- Yes i have no problem if it was legalized. IF that is what your saying by "im sure no one will fess up that they defend.."


just because mic vic fighted his dogs. Doesnt mean every single dogfighter is like him. Dont blame the sport. blame the people.

I rarly agree with you but this is spot on for the most part.

Oh and can we spell Vick's name right in the future.... I wouldn't want anyone getting the wrong idea about me. lol

Vic

[gunhijala]

these folks who say doig fighting is ok as long as it's done right- are in denial, and they are sick. I'd like to see them have to fight for their lives- now that I'd pay to see.

[arriplify]

First off this post should be locked by now Id think.

Second. Without dogmen we wouldnt have our dogs to this day.

Third, As far as animals feeling pain and rights and wrongs...Oh lordy where to start. If everyone feels dog matching and cock fighting should be illegal, Mise well ban hunting/fishing and the likes for Christ sake! Personally, everything can be been seen as horrible animal cruelty. I love animals to death, I still hunt, and fish. I see no problem in birds we eat pecking eachothers eyes out. (Never been to a cock fight or will go) But I am just saying. or what about betta fish fighting? Seriously THEY ARE FISH. Are people going to start calling it animal cruelty housing multiple rodents together? Which can often time result in canniblism.

Honestly there is ways dogmatching and so forth can be controlled, at least as much control as they have now over dog fighting phhht. Make people register there dogs, apply for permits, take dog matching classes LOL I don't know.

Its one thing to support our history its another to support rejects of life like the wanna be GANGSTAs.

I mean wouldn't it be considered animal cruelty letting hunting dogs kill? Um no they are doing what they were BRED to do.........so ok then.

Bottom line everyone has opinions.

[lapInsalm]

To make an omelet you have to break some eggs. All of our bulldogs, from the SBT's, AST's, APBT's all come from fighting pit dogs. I have no problem with that and accept it just like I have no problem with breeders who "test" their stock on "hog hunts". I personally wouldn't do it but who am I to interject my opinion as Gospel. I guess I'm just callous and jaded. There are other things in this world to worry about than the matching/rolling of dogs. I'm sure some of you will take me to task.

[Acciblyfluila]

All animals feel pain. It is illogical to believe animals could function without this capacity. One quick Google on fish:

Thank you so, so much for your post. I couldn't have kept it that civil and professional.

[Mmzmptvk]

as always the backstreet disgusting savagery these street kids do cannot in any way shape or form be compared to serious dog matching.ive always said if these kids actually understood the knowledge dedication and time it took to prepare a dog for a match it would put them off of anything to do with dog fighting because they just dont have what it takes to prepare a dog before or care for a dog after the battle.
the trouble is these street kids make up probably 80% of what people call " dog fighting ".the genuine and dedicated dog matcher is a small minority in the breed.
whether your anti or pro dog fighting if you love this breed you cannot deny their past and dog fighting is a massive part of what this breed is today so if you detest the sport so much why choose a pit bull as a pet ive never understood it.
its easy to call it disgusting and what not but its a lot harder to study and understand what it actually takes to match a dog from the dogs point of view and the owners.maybe if more people actually took the time to learn about it instead of passing it off with powerful words they would respect where and who these dogs today came from

Very interesting opinions here. One thing I would like to say though, is that I wish people would stop blaming everything on the "street kids" or the "thugs" as they are called. As if no one else participates in Dog fighting. Most of these so-called street kids don't have the money it takes to organize a dogfight or maintain a dog in fighting condition. If you want to know who is really keeping the underground dog fighting circuit alive, I would bet money that it's not some street kid, but some guy who is probably a home-owner in suburbia. Although no one has directly mentioned any race, when you say street kids or thugs it immediately calls to mind a certain racial demographic. keep it real!!

[viagra_generic]

if someone says "street kids" or "thugs" and a certain race comes to mind then your either sensitive or racist because last time i checked street kids and thugs are of no specific race or color.

[i6mbwwdh]

No worries xdogs, this is why I love the internet - I fail at calm and rational in real life.

Fenris... I was going on this scientific study about fish and their ability to feel pain....


Fish lack the brains to feel pain, says the latest school of thought - smh.com.au

An academic study comparing the nervous systems and responses of fish and mammals has found that fishes' brains are not sufficiently developed to allow them to sense pain or fear.
The study is the work of James D Rose, a professor of zoology and physiology at the University of Wyoming, who has been working on questions of neurology for almost 30 years. He has examined data on the responses of animals to pain and stimulus from scores of studies collected over the past 15 years.
His report, published in the American journal Reviews of Fisheries Science, has concluded that awareness of pain depends on functions of specific regions of the cerebral cortex which fish do not possess.
Professor Rose, 60, said that previous studies which had indicated that fish can feel pain had confused nociception - responding to a threatening stimulus - with feeling pain.

Well I'm glad it's based on something. I think it's generally well accepted now that fish do feel pain, but ultimately in my opinion whether or not they feel pain isn't really the point. Just got a bit carried away in my "research".

if someone says "street kids" or "thugs" and a certain race comes to mind then your either sensitive or racist because last time i checked street kids and thugs are of no specific race or color.

I don't know about "street kids", but "thugs" most certainly is a racially loaded term, and choosing not to acknowledge this does not make it any less true.