[joe-salton]

Assault of audio gets bats the hell out of gardens
Tim Barlass June 5, 2012

ON A wing and a prayer, the Royal Botanic Gardens last night finally launched its attempt to evict flying foxes from their roosts among its heritage-listed trees.


After fives years of planning, legal challenges and protests from conservationists, the operation began shortly after sunset.


At 5.21pm, a cacophony of percussion noises could be heard from within the gardens, which were closed to the public.

A mix of industrial noises, whistles and what sounded like the banging of saucepans was relayed from speakers on mobile buggies.


Within five minutes of the wake-up call, hundreds of bats were circling above the gardens.


''Normally you get a stream flying to the south and one to the east but they are not doing that,'' said Storm Stanford of Bat Watch Australia. ''You can see how confused their flight is and they are making a lot of noise. Normally it is silent.''


The hope is that the grey-headed flying fox will disappear into the Sydney night skies and never return.


The biggest unknown, however, is exactly where the Pteropus Poliocephalus will choose for their new hang out. There are concerns that the bats, carriers of the Hendra virus, may add to the numbers at Centennial Park, close to Randwick racecourse.


''We will have a better idea how it has gone after a few days, it may even take a fortnight,'' the Royal Botanic Gardens and Domain director, Mark Savio, said. ''I think it may need to be a little bit louder. The idea is that you don't let them get used to a noise pattern.''


He said there was a small window of opportunity to act while the colony was at a seasonal low of about 5000.


The recorded noise is played for up to 45 minutes before dawn and 30 minutes around sunset.


The noise disturbance will be focused in the centre of the garden, near the Palm Grove.
Their roosting is blamed for the loss of 28 trees and 30 palms, including some irreplaceable heritage species. A further 60 plants are on the critical list.


''Strict approval conditions require that the flying foxes relocate to suitable locations away from homes,'' Mr Savio said. ''If they settle in unsuitable locations, we're committed to moving them on from there.''


In accordance with NSW and federal government approvals, an extensive monitoring and tracking study is supporting the relocation. The dispersal can occur only from May 1 to July 31 to ensure the flying foxes, which are classified as vulnerable, are not disturbed during later pregnancy, when the young are being born and when mothers are carrying young.


''It will be like musical chairs, when the music stops that's where the foxes will be. There's no basis for telling whether the animals will be in an acceptable spot on July 31,'' the flying fox researcher Peggy Eby said previously.


http://www.theage.com.au/environment...604-1zs7m.html

[OGOGOogoloshennya]

I grew up in Gordon with the main bat colony in the bushland and gullies just over the fence. Night time was a parade of black wings and fruit was picked off our plum & apricot trees before ripe and made into jam as once ripe the entire tree could be stripped overnight.

I have also seen the damage in the botanical gardens. Whilst I loved living with the bats I can also see the gardens point of view.

[Mister.levitra]

I grew up in Gordon with the main bat colony in the bushland and gullies just over the fence. Night time was a parade of black wings and fruit was picked off our plum & apricot trees before ripe and made into jam as once ripe the entire tree could be stripped overnight.

I have also seen the damage in the botanical gardens. Whilst I loved living with the bats I can also see the gardens point of view.

The gardens have been told for the last 25 years that they need to plant more trees (they are supposed to be good at that sort of thing) and that it will have a 10 year lead time.

Nothing has changed in the last 25 years and they still have a 10 year lead time if they grow more trees.

If a body that is devoted to the conservation of plants can not see and use the essential interrelationship of plants with their pollinators then there isn't a lot of hope for the rest of the population to see the value of the bats.

[warrgazur]

The gardens have been told for the last 25 years that they need to plant more trees (they are supposed to be good at that sort of thing) and that it will have a 10 year lead time.

Nothing has changed in the last 25 years and they still have a 10 year lead time if they grow more trees.

If a body that is devoted to the conservation of plants can not see and use the essential interrelationship of plants with their pollinators then there isn't a lot of hope for the rest of the population to see the value of the bats.

The Gardens are part of the NSW Herbarium, so do a little more than what goes on in the gardens. Many if not most tree sized species there are introduced so have little or no interrelationship with the bats. I was also under the impression that the bats only roosted there and fed elsewhere. Usually in these Botanical Gardens, certain trees have a historical value besides a botanical one that is considered worth saving. As the bats are slowly destroying parts of the gardens, would you have them demolish the lot and then have them move on?

[Mister.levitra]

The Gardens are part of the NSW Herbarium, so do a little more than what goes on in the gardens. Many if not most tree sized species there are introduced so have little or no interrelationship with the bats. I was also under the impression that the bats only roosted there and fed elsewhere. Usually in these Botanical Gardens, certain trees have a historical value besides a botanical one that is considered worth saving. As the bats are slowly destroying parts of the gardens, would you have them demolish the lot and then have them move on?

You are incorrect - the bats also feed in the Gardens as there are large number of local and other east coast ficus and eucs there and in the Domain.

If the gardens were to have planted specific roost trees, as it has been advised to do many, many time, then the BGDT could have its trees, and the bats their roost in this long term roost location.

You also do not appear to be aware that many of the trees and palms that are planted there suffered very badly during the long east coast drought and have recovered greatly since it began to rain. In addition, many of the species planted there have not been able to manage the very poor local soil conditions and fungal disease that is with in the soil. The initial response to the bats by the Gardens was some extremely unsympathetic pruning which caused significant further damage to individual specimens. These management practises were only changed after the 2005 Fakes report.

These factors are not generally discussed by the Trust which ensures the bats remain a convenient whipping boy for all of these issues and demonstrate the inability of the Trust's directors to engage meaningfully with the actual landscape where the gardens are situated.

As you say, the work of the NSW Herbarium is far broader than what is seen in the Gardens; the presence of a threatened species of fruit bat on the grounds does nothing to interfere with that work and should, in fact, enhance the Garden's education role.

[warrgazur]

>>If the gardens were to have planted specific roost trees, as it has been advised to do many, many time, then the BGDT could have its trees, and the bats their roost in this long term roost location.
You also do not appear to be aware that many of the trees and palms that are planted there suffered very badly during the long east coast drought and have recovered greatly since it began to rain. In addition, many of the species planted there have not been able to manage the very poor local soil conditions and fungal disease that is with in the soil. The initial response to the bats by the Gardens was some extremely unsympathetic pruning which caused significant further damage to individual specimens. These management practises were only changed after the 2005 Fakes report.
These factors are not generally discussed by the Trust which ensures the bats remain a convenient whipping boy for all of these issues and demonstrate the inability of the Trust's directors to engage meaningfully with the actual landscape where the gardens are situated.
As you say, the work of the NSW Herbarium is far broader than what is seen in the Gardens; the presence of a threatened species of fruit bat on the grounds does nothing to interfere with that work and should, in fact, enhance the Garden's education role.

[joe-salton]

I think we need to be less emotional about single species and think more about the habitat generally.

So the plight of a single native species (bats) need less attention and protection than an artificial environment such as that of the RBG? We can always import more exotic plants if required, but it's hard to import a native species under threat.

Given your views expressed in the past about how we neglect natives, it seems somewhat odd you think a bunch of introduced species should be given special protection at the expense of native fauna.

As for the idea that it's only a roosting area and bats don't feed there, sorry, but bats seem to love introduced palm fruits from my observations (palms are some of the trees so far affected).

Are you sure your post isn't more playing the poster than playing the ball?

[warrgazur]

So the plight of a single native species (bats) need less attention and protection than an artificial environment such as that of the RBG? We can always import more exotic plants if required, but it's hard to import a native species under threat.

Given your views expressed in the past about how we neglect natives, it seems somewhat odd you think a bunch of introduced species should be given special protection at the expense of native fauna.

As for the idea that it's only a roosting area and bats don't feed there, sorry, but bats seem to love introduced palm fruits from my observations (palms are some of the trees so far affected).

Are you sure your post isn't more playing the poster than playing the ball?

A botanical garden is a little more than just a collection of introduced species. It is an important habitat now for a variety of species, humans included.

The bats in question survive in more colonies around Australia including the Melbourne Botanical Gardens where once again they devastated important flora. To let everything go down the tube for the sake of a single species is very short sighted as that species in the long run, will also suffer the destruction of its own making.

[joe-salton]

A botanical garden is a little more than just a collection of introduced species. It is an important habitat now for a variety of species, humans included.

The bats in question survive in more colonies around Australia including the Melbourne Botanical Gardens where once again they devastated important flora. To let everything go down the tube for the sake of a single species is very short sighted as that species in the long run, will also suffer the destruction of its own making.

Doubt bats will do any harm to herbarium or other areas of gardens indoors.

Last sentence is ludicrous. The destruction is the bat's fault? As for human habitat, I can live happily without seeing artificial gardens in the midst of a city (rather like to see natural areas instead if I had my druthers).

What other factors make this such "important" habitat? Could chop every exotic down and remove it, replace with natives and bring bushland back and create even more useful habitat. Trouble is it would take away the "picture perfect" postcard harbourside image that Sydney-siders like to bang on about.

[warrgazur]

Doubt bats will do any harm to herbarium or other areas of gardens indoors.

Last sentence is ludicrous. The destruction is the bat's fault? As for human habitat, I can live happily without seeing artificial gardens in the midst of a city (rather like to see natural areas instead if I had my druthers).

What other factors make this such "important" habitat? Could chop every exotic down and remove it, replace with natives and bring bushland back and create even more useful habitat. Trouble is it would take away the "picture perfect" postcard harbourside image that Sydney-siders like to bang on about.

Sounds like you have never been to a Botanical Gardens Woolly. They generally have a range of rare and unusual species (including native ones), many of botanical and historical significance that are recognised by all interested in natural history. Besides they are usually beautiful places to visit and enjoy. The bats on the otherhand have been killing many species and they are not native to that area either. They are not going to be killed only moved elsewhere where they will be less destructive. The way some people carry on, it is as if these are the last of the species and if moved on will send them extinct, this is total bunkum.

[Mister.levitra]

Sounds like you have never been to a Botanical Gardens Woolly. They generally have a range of rare and unusual species (including native ones), many of botanical and historical significance that are recognised by all interested in natural history. Besides they are usually beautiful places to visit and enjoy. The bats on the otherhand have been killing many species and they are not native to that area either. They are not going to be killed only moved elsewhere where they will be less destructive. The way some people carry on, it is as if these are the last of the species and if moved on will send them extinct, this is total bunkum.

It's nice that you can make these statements in complete ignorance and without making the effort to do the research that would enlighten you.

Keep up the good work.

(here's a hint: Pteropus poliocephalus were recorded in the area at the time of settlement. East Coast Australia is the range of this endemic species.)

[joe-salton]

Sounds like you have never been to a Botanical Gardens Woolly.

Because I don't share your view? I've been to several of them a lot (Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney, Bundaberg, as well as local Native Botanic Gardens, which I helped work on back in it's inception twenty odd years ago. Also worked there last year and as a matter of fact visited only last Wednesday). Those creds good enough?

Grey Headed Flying Foxes aren't native to that area? Refs please 'coz all my info suggests otherwise.

The way some people carry on you'd think if a tree dies in the botanic gardens a plant species will go extinct...total bunkum

[warrgazur]

It's nice that you can make these statements in complete ignorance and without making the effort to do the research that would enlighten you.

Keep up the good work.

(here's a hint: Pteropus poliocephalus were recorded in the area at the time of settlement. East Coast Australia is the range of this endemic species.)

They would not have been in the Sydney area around settlement as both the aborigines AND the people off the First Fleet would have been feasting on them and the latter not near starvation. A little common sense would not go astray either.

[joe-salton]

They would not have been in the Sydney area around settlement as both the aborigines AND the people off the First Fleet would have been feasting on them and the latter not near starvation. A little common sense would not go astray either.

Keep the laughs coming. Europeans wouldn't have eaten them 'coz it was "foreign" food. Bourke and Wills proved how stupid that line of thinking is long after the First Fleet...

[warrgazur]

Because I don't share your view? I've been to several of them a lot (Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney, Bundaberg, as well as local Native Botanic Gardens, which I helped work on back in it's inception twenty odd years ago. Also worked there last year and as a matter of fact visited only last Wednesday). Those creds good enough?

Grey Headed Flying Foxes aren't native to that area? Refs please 'coz all my info suggests otherwise.

The way some people carry on you'd think if a tree dies in the botanic gardens a plant species will go extinct...total bunkum

Then I am surprised you don't have a higher appreciation as to what is at stake.

Just because a species distribution range covered an area, it does not follow that they were spread over the entire region, food availability and predators would have a lot to do with it.

There are many trees in a Botanical Garden of significant and educational importance, but as you are so familiar with them, you would know this.

[warrgazur]

Keep the laughs coming. Europeans wouldn't have eaten them 'coz it was "foreign" food. Bourke and Wills proved how stupid that line of thinking is long after the First Fleet...

You should do a little research Woolly, as it is recorded that they supplemented their supplies with whatever they could fish and hunt.

[joe-salton]

There are many trees in a Botanical Garden of significant and educational importance, but as you are so familiar with them, you would know this.

Of course I know this and that's where the problem lies. I like/love/respect plants a lot, but same applies to critters too and if forced to support a native species over exotics, I'll go with the first option every time. Educational importance? Read a book, watch a video, look at an image and you still get edumacated.

[joe-salton]

You should do a little research Woolly, as it is recorded that they supplemented their supplies with whatever they could fish and hunt.

That's why they knocked back fish and Nardoo the aboriginals offered them and all but one died of scurvy and malnutrition?

Or is my research wrong?

[sniskelsowwef]

I must pay tribute to jennajones's unremitting / seemingly tireless work here at educating people about this.
I began entirely on the Garden's side ... it has been a long haul reading up and thinking about it all.

[warrgazur]

That's why they knocked back fish and Nardoo the aboriginals offered them and all but one died of scurvy and malnutrition?

Or is my research wrong?

Didn't think Nardoo grew around Sydney, so yes your research is wrong.

Anyway, have to leave you with your strange ideas Woolly, but shall be back later to respond if needed.