[Ifroham4]

How many mosques were burned in the US after 9-11?

Well, I have to give credit where credit is due. First of all, in the Clinton administration, due to a spate of church burnings by people who BTW were NOT Muslims, hate crime laws and specifically ones involving burning a place of worship got stricter. It could be expected that security was stricter as well. In fact, whenever I go to Friday prayers there is a policeman stationed outside the mosque. Thank you. Although that was not able to prevent my mosque from being vandalized several months ago.

Secondly, thank you John Ashcroft for being tough on hate crimes, including anti-Muslim hate crimes. I'm not a fan of Ashcroft, but I give credit where credit is due. Even Ashcroft's efforts weren't able to prevent anti-Muslim hate crime from rising 1600% in the wake of 9/11. And they weren't able to bring back to life a couple of Sikhs, murdered for wearing turbans.

How many dual US citizens were deported after 9-11? That is classified. Jose Padilla, a US citizen has been held for over two years without being charged or given due process. The government refuses to list who has been detained and not. Therefore it is impossible to know how many of them were US citizens.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

5th Amendment to U.S. Constitution


The Netherlands has one person brutally murdered and the European citizens are practically ready to start their own Jihad against the Muslims. First, all murders are brutal. Someone shot to death or stabbed by a Muslim doesn't die MORE than someone shot or stabbed by a non-Muslim.

Second, the Muslim community in the Netherlands has condemned the crime, as do I. They even commemorated Theo Van Gogh during Friday services.

How many Jewish babies in Israel have met a similar cold blooded murder resting in their cribs as Theo van Gogh’s? I suppose you have a statistic on this far reaching analogy. That Van Gogh, who observed his legal right to free speech by producing a hate film is equal to a baby in a crib, seems kind of strange. That the Netherlands is any way analogous to Israel is even stranger.

Yet Israel is the target of 100’s of European sponsored UN resolutions while Arafat is promoted as a hero throughout Europe with a Noble peace prize to his name no less and billions of embezzled Euros in his personal bank from European tax payers. At this point you are simply babbling. Theo = innocent babies = Israel, his murderer = Arafat = Palestine.

Nothing would make me happier than for Europe to wake-up to the enemy within. And do what? Start killing people in the streets? Europe is doing fine without your input.

[HedgeYourBets]

Actually, the late chairman of the L.A. chapter of the JDL was plotting to blow up an L.A. area mosque. Somebody from within reported it to the FBI, and he got arrested before being able to do anything. I wonder how likely would it be that some American Muslims report on the terrorist activities of their fellows.

What’s the big deal? The US had over 3,000 people brutally murdered on 9-11 by the followers of the religion of peace. They didn’t even release a film that dared to expose the Islamic treatment of woman. Their crime was just showing up to work before 9 am.

How many mosques were burned in the US after 9-11? How many dual US citizens were deported after 9-11?

The Netherlands has one person brutally murdered and the European citizens are practically ready to start their own Jihad against the Muslims.

How many Jewish babies in Israel have met a similar cold blooded murder resting in their cribs as Theo van Gogh’s? Yet Israel is the target of 100’s of European sponsored UN resolutions while Arafat is promoted as a hero throughout Europe with a Noble peace prize to his name no less and billions of embezzled Euros in his personal bank from European tax payers.

Nothing would make me happier than for Europe to wake-up to the enemy within.

I have often wondered how big of a bomb from the Islamo-fascists it would take to wake you guys up. Given the European's love affair with tyrants and Islam I never thought it would take the brutal murder of just one person though.

Hopefully this new attitude is start of something bigger.

[Ifroham4]

Our thoughts are with the good people of the Netherlands! Perhaps, other Europeans will be shaken from their complacency.

[Paul Bunyan]

All of that is neither here nor there. The film was, a representation of Van Gogh and his Islamic partners view of how women or some women are treated in Islam. Free speech is what it is and it is not the freedom to be free from being offended. I saw the first 11 minutes of it and it's interesting. Is it offensive? I have no way of knowing. Maybe to some, and not to people like Irshad Manji.

But keep in mind that no one except the target of a hate crime gets to call it that. If muslims or Jews or gays or the blind say they are the victims of hate crimes, you pretty much have to take them at their word and accept that. You may disagree you may even say there is no meaningful thing as a hate crime. That's fine, you get to say that. But you, like Jim Crow, don't get to tell the people on the back of the bus why they should feel good about being there; you can't really reserve the right to yourself to determine what hate crimes are for other people any more than our fine french friends here want to tell you what antisemitism really is.

[Big A]

That's the thing with Andak....any HONESTY in talking about the APPLICATION of Islam in many places he considers HATE.

That's the new Orwellian tactic.

Guess what - in SA women are subjugated and treated like cr@p....and of all the muslim nations - more nations are like SA than are like, say, Morrocco or Turkey. And the latter two are headed in the wrong direction.

Please....

Islam has been perverted by literalists and fundamentalists and as it is practiced in much of the world is an abomination if you believe in things like natural rights, equality of the sexes, etc.

[Slonopotam845]

I disagree, Medio.

Talking about the actual treatment of women in Islamic societies is not hatred. That's like talking about the treatment of women in ultra-orthodox society - if its an accurate reflection, then its not hate.

Its like showing those killed or the bloody car in a targetted killing by Israel. That, in of itself, is not hate.

Nor is showing a beheading and the video's they produce.

It simply is not hate.

The targets of the commentary DO NOT define what a hate crime is.

SOCIETY defines it, just like in the US, black people do not define a federal hate crime - the Government, representing ALL OF THE PEOPLE, does.