[noingenah]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44859731...012/?gt1=43001

Just this part stuck out to me immediately:

Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann said it's "not a jobs plan; it's a tax plan."

"When you take the '9-9-9' plan and turn it upside-down, the devil's in the details," she said, referencing the Satanic sequence of numbers, "6-6-6."

Really Bachmann? The devil? *Sigh*

[VemyhemiHef]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44859731...012/?gt1=43001

Just this part stuck out to me immediately:

Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann said it's "not a jobs plan; it's a tax plan."

"When you take the '9-9-9' plan and turn it upside-down, the devil's in the details," she said, referencing the Satanic sequence of numbers, "6-6-6."

Really Bachmann? The devil? *Sigh*

Sadly, there are religious nutcases on the right who heard that and thought "awesome response!"

[Ngwkgczx]

Cain, who's surged to second place in recent national polling, talked up the plan — which calls for a nine percent tax on personal income, business income and sales — and responded to criticism from other GOP presidential hopefuls. Is Cain on drugs? Apparently Bachman was. We already know Perry is. Were they passing around a crack pipe or something?

[Grieryaliny]

Is Cain on drugs? Apparently Bachman was. We already know Perry is. Were they passing around a crack pipe or something?

They quite possibly are on drugs - you have to be in order to become a politician. No one in their right mind chooses that job. Bachmann IS not was lol. I can't get over her turning 9's into 6s and calling it the devil's work. Is she Bobby Boucher's mom? "That's the devil's work!"

[Snitiendumurn]

Is Cain on drugs? Apparently Bachman was. We already know Perry is. Were they passing around a crack pipe or something?

What, is 9% income tax to high for the poor? I guess so since it will be less than their responsible 10%, but highers than their -2% effective rate.

[CGECngjA]

Don't know what brought this to mind - but if someone wanted to kill Cain, the easiest way would be to break into his house and sharpie a lighting bolt on his forehead while he was sleeping.

[papadopul]

What, is 9% income tax to high for the poor? I guess so since it will be less than their responsible 10%, but highers than their -2% effective rate.

Too high for the poor, too low for the rich. Egad!

[cajonnmu]

9-9-9 is a plan, I'll give it that, possibly what I would even categorize an intermediate step in the right direction. I can't say it thrills me enough as a stand-alone to make me want to jump in the Herman Cain camp.

[amberamuletuk]

Too high for the poor,

It is less than the poor pay now. They only get that effective rate after they file their taxes. Anyone saying anything about taxes on the poor is met with vicious ignorant attacks even before they understand what the policy says.

[Aafimoq]

One thing you cant deny about Mr. Cain..He is putting solutions and plans on the table. Other than Pual , whose plans have been laid out for a decade or more, all the other candidates are keeping mum on anything that is substantial. Having the balls to put something out there this early knowing the scrutiny it would receive is a bonus in my book. Additionally i would like to see how blacks react to him. It would be funny to see him against obama. Obama cant pull the "roots" shit anymore now that he would be running against a guy who really did live it.

9/9/9 is a step in the right direction. Like it or not, it is still better than the current code. For you hippies out there, how many people did his evil empire corporation godfathers pizza employ? Ask maddow or scarborogh how many people their rich asses employ. Cut taxes on the rich and let them ivest more in their companies. Let them get richer and expand their businesses. I dont care if joe ceo made an extra 10 million this year because of tax loopholes. What you dont hear is how he re-invested much of that to build another plant somewhere else so he could make 20 million next year. Along the way he employed another 3000 people. Or tax the shit out of him so there is no incentive to make more since you get taxed more and 3000 folks dont get hired. YOur right. Screw corporate greed.

-3D

[asharbiq]

From the LA Times...

Herman Cain has so far been willing to name just one advisor who helped him craft his catchy 9-9-9 tax plan.

“One of my experts that helped me to develop this is a gentleman by the name of Rich Lowrie out of Cleveland, Ohio,” Cain said at Tuesday’s Washington Post-Bloomberg debate. “He is an economist, and he has worked in the business of wealth creation most of his career.”

But according to Lowrie’s LinkedIn page, “economist” might be a bit of a stretch.

Lowrie holds a bachelor’s degree in accountancy from Case Western Reserve University and spent much of his career working in the investment banking industry. He now leads a wealth management group of Wells Fargo Advisors in Cleveland.

From 2005 through 2008, Lowrie served on the board of advisors of Americans for Prosperity, a nonprofit advocacy group with ties to the billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch.

[antonyandruleit]

From a Ron Paul fanboy site so you can't claim I selectively poach from liberal sources...

Herman Cain’s movement towards a flat tax is his widely coveted 9-9-9 plan which looks very attractive from a distance. However, upon further scrutiny one finds that this system may be much worse than the current flawed system.

For those of you unfamiliar with Herman Cain’s plan it’s a 9% business flat tax, 9% personal income tax and 9% national sales tax. At a glance, 9% is a very attractive number for anyone in the middle class with incremental tax rates ranging from 15% to 35%. What isn’t obvious is that Cain’s plan would be achieved by eliminating most deductions. With the current tax code deductions, a tax rate of 28% could drop to about 17%. That said, keep in mind the National Sales Tax at 9% is a new tax added on top, so this is really just shuffling of numbers.

The 9% business flat tax creates a perverse loophole incentive by lowering the taxation on capital gains and dividends to 0%. This naturally encourages businessmen to pay out 100% of their income as dividends or hide it by “reinvesting” it into the business rather than pay the 9%. So while the people pay both a state and federal tax (up to 33%), the businesses get away with paying no tax. Another thing to take into consideration is that smaller businesses wouldn't be able to utilize this 0% income tax to their advantage because often their only shareholder would be themselves. I find it hard to believe a businessman of Herman Cain's stature could mistakenly overlook a loophole like this.

Before continuing with the final portion of the 9-9-9 plan I’d like to take a moment to explain the challenge with transitioning into the 9-9-9 plan. With our current tax system our national revenue last year was about $2.2 trillion, leaving a national deficit of $1.7. Adjusted to the 9-9-9 plan the total national revenue would be $1.7 trillion, this inflates our deficit to $2.2 trillion. Mr. Cain has not presented a spending proposal that would allow for our current boated government to function on $1.7 trillion dollars, nor has he detailed which, if any, cuts he’d make to make his plan plausible.

Now for the real evil of the 9-9-9 plan; the national sales tax. Since Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan is can’t be immediately instituted due to the sheer size of our government. Herman Cain has created a series of phases, that have, in my opinion a low probability of success. Initially the 9-9-9 plan would be more like a 9-9-25 (or so) plan. So initially we would need to begin with a National Sales Tax of 22-30% to fund our government. Which would undoubtedly have detrimental effects on our economy, as the author of the following scenario suggests.

“Generally, when you purchase a final, refined good, you are paying for the raw materials that went into processing it. So let’s use a hypothetical example and compare current tax law with Cain’s 9 / 9 / 9 plan.
Under current law: As a manufacturer, you go to purchase raw materials. Suppose your Widget needs a stack of lumber that costs $1000. Because of state sales tax, that lumber costs, on average, $1070. That cost is built into the end price of the Widget.
Now, you manufacture these widgets. To make up for the expense of the Widget, and to ensure you’re making money to pay for labor, transportation, inspection, regulation, etc. and profit, your final product costs $2000, and one of your customers will pay $2140 it. Your customer has to get the Widgets to market, and charges $3000, or $3210 with final state tax.
Under the Cain 9% plan: Now the stack of lumber comes with a 16% tax on it (state’s 7% plus 9% for Federal), which makes the lumber cost $1160 for raw materials, $2320 for the manufacturer, and $3480. Notice a few things here–
A) The profit margin for the manufacturer has decreased. In order to make up for this, his end product needs to be more expensive. So let’s call his end price to market is $2410 to make up, just in revenue lost from paying the extra tax on raw materials. Notice this now a 20.5% increase in price with built in taxation– not 16% as figured from the state + the Cain 9%).
B) The end distributor for customers now also has to make up for that increase in price, so let’s put that new term at $3750 for recouping what was lost in tax before, so the end price is now 25% higher. If this distributor is pushing items out to stores for end-sales, we’re looking at a 30% increase in prices from a 9% increase due to a NST.”


In that scenario the author gives Mr. Cain the benefit of the doubt, that is, instead of using a more realistic 23% for his math he uses a 9%. One only needs to extrapolate those numbers to understand what turmoil our country would be in under those circumstances. I agree with the author, as he goes on to conclude, that both businesses and the middle class would suffer greatly from this while the rich would gain.

[h4z1XBI7]

One thing you cant deny about Mr. Cain..He is putting solutions and plans on the table. Other than Pual , whose plans have been laid out for a decade or more, all the other candidates are keeping mum on anything that is substantial. To be honest, this whole process seems to be just an opportunity to sell books... "Hi guys I'm Rick Perry and you should vote for me... and buy my book!"

[assohillA]

To be honest, this whole process seems to be just an opportunity to sell books... "Hi guys I'm Rick Perry and you should vote for me... and buy my book!"

In some cases I think you might be right, but it is an interesting trend in the past few how books and elections seem to be going hand-in-hand!

[iioijjjkkojhbb]

To be honest, this whole process seems to be just an opportunity to sell books... "Hi guys I'm Rick Perry and you should vote for me... and buy my book!"

Oh wow I have sick sense of humor, I just wondered to myself whether Rick Santorum has any books out?

[pitoufsd]

That would be funny - I can almost see it now -

When asked about his opinion on obscenity laws, Santorum stated his firm belief that "Sex has no place in Porn"

[RokgroofeTeme]

That would be funny - I can almost see it now -

When asked about his opinion on obscenity laws, Santorum stated his firm belief that "Sex has no place in Porn"

What's worse, he actually does (have books out), several in fact. I'm curious if I even feel bold enough to download them to my Kindle and see what they say, something tells me not even worth the time and expense, even for amusement.

[bettingonosports]

If I read them, the stupidity would probably burn my retinas out.

[Zoxeeoy]

I loved the comment at the Rep chit chat where pery goes "Is that the price of a pizza!"

[kristloken]

I loved the comment at the Rep chit chat where pery goes "Is that the price of a pizza!"

It was John Huntsman.