[KahiroSamo]

Reuters
VIENNA — Roman Catholic and Orthodox theologians reported promising progress in talks on overcoming their Great Schism of 1054 and bringing the two largest denominations in Christianity back to full communion.


Experts meeting in Vienna last week agreed that the two could eventually become "sister churches" that recognize the Roman pope as their titular head but retain many church structures, liturgy and customs that developed over the past millennium.


The delegation heads stressed that unity was still far off, but their upbeat report Friday reflected growing cooperation between Rome and the Orthodox churches traditionally centered in Russia, Greece, Eastern Europe and the Middle East.


"There are no clouds of mistrust between our two churches," Orthodox Metropolitan John Zizioulas of Pergamon said at a news conference. "If we continue like that, God will find a way to overcome all the difficulties that remain."


Archbishop Kurt Koch, the top Vatican official for Christian unity, said the joint dialogue must continue "intensively" so that "we see each other fully as sister churches."


The churches split in 1054 over the primacy of the Roman pope, the most senior bishop in early Christianity. The Orthodox in Constantinople, now Istanbul, rejected Roman primacy and developed national churches headed by their own patriarchs.


The Vatican has sought closer ties for years, but the Russian Orthodox Church — whose 165 million followers are the largest branch of the world's 250 million Orthodox — responded slowly as it emerged from more than seven decades of Communist rule.


Roman Catholicism is Christianity's largest church, with 1.1 billion of the estimated 2 billion Christians worldwide.


Pope Benedict has close ties to the spiritual leader of the Orthodox, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew in Istanbul, and hopes to meet Russian Patriarch Kirill, who has shown great interest in better ties since taking office in early 2009.


Benedict and Kirill are both conservative theologians who say Europe should return to its Christian roots. The Orthodox are closer to Catholicism in their theology and liturgy than the Protestant churches that broke from Rome in the 16th century.


Unity will require change on both sides, the delegation heads stressed. "I won't call it a reformation — that is too strong — but an adaptation from both sides," John said.


For the Orthodox, he said, that means recognizing there is a universal Christian church at a level higher than their national churches and that the bishop of Rome is its traditional head.


The Catholics would have to strengthen the principle of synodality, by which a church leader consults bishops before making important decisions, he added.


Both those points are sensitive. The Orthodox traditionally prize their decentralized structures and reject the idea of a pope, while the Catholic hierarchy is a pyramid with clear lines of authority from local churches up to the powerful pontiff.


To work this out, they are studying Christianity's early history to see how the Latin-speaking West and Greek-speaking East worked together for 1,000 years before the Great Schism.


"The basic discussion is about how these churches lived in the first millennium and how we can find a new [common] path today," Koch explained.


Koch said Pope Benedict recently showed his readiness to accept diversity in the church by inviting disaffected Anglicans to become Catholics while keeping some of their traditions.


John said a next step along the way to unity would be a pan-Orthodox council to work out relations between national churches and the Istanbul-based Ecumenical Patriarchate, which has spiritual leadership but no practical authority over them.


"We hope that very soon we will be able to invoke such a council," John said. He said the joint theological commission could probably meet again in 2012 to discuss the theological aspects of closer unity.

[popsicesHoupe]

Met. Hilarion of Volokolamsk, chairman of the Moscow Patriarchate’s department for external church relations, doesn't quite agree with all the optimism:

Contrary to allegations in the press, the Orthodox-Catholic Commission meeting in Vienna has made no ‘breakthrough’ whatsoever. The entire meeting was devoted to a discussion on the role of the bishop of Rome in the first millennium. The Commission’s coordinating committee had drafted a document on this issue, which was discussed last year in Cyprus. A rough draft of this document ‘leaked’ into the mass media and was published.

It was planned to finalize the discussion on this draft in Vienna. However, something different happened as the discussion on the status of this draft took too much time. The Orthodox participants, from the very beginning of the meeting, insisted that ‘Crete Document’ could not be officially published on behalf of the Commission, nor could it be signed by its members. From our point of view, this draft has to be considerably revised, but even after the revision it only could have the status of ‘working document’, that is, auxiliary material (instrumentum laboris) which could be used in preparing subsequent documents and could have no official status.

‘The Crete Document’ is purely historical and, speaking of the role of the bishop of Rome, it makes almost no mention of bishops of other Local Churches in the first millennium, thus creating a wrong impression of how powers were distributed in the Early Church. Besides, the document is lacking any clear statement that the jurisdiction of the bishop of Rome did not extend to the East in the first millennium. It is hoped that these gaps and omissions will be made up in revising the text.

After a long discussion, the Commission agreed that this document should be improved and that a final decision on its status should be made at the next plenary session of the Commission, that is, presumably in two-year’s time. By this time a new draft document will have been elaborated to deal with the same problem but from the theological perspective.

For the Orthodox participants, it is clear that in the first millennium the jurisdiction of the bishop of Rome was exercised only in the West, while in the East, the territories were divided between four Patriarchs – those of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. The bishop of Rome did not exercise any direct jurisdiction in the East in spite of the fact that in some cases Eastern hierarchs appealed to him as arbiter in theological disputes. These appeals were not systematic and can in no way be interpreted in the sense that the bishop of Rome was seen in the East as the supreme authority in the whole Universal Church.

It is hoped that at the next meetings of the Commission, the Catholic side will agree with this position which is confirmed by numerous historical evidence.

[KahiroSamo]

Is there a way to find this "Crete Document?" I tried google and nothing came up that was related directly to this.

Who are the Orthodox participants?

[Q0KmoR8K]

It seems to me that, whenever talks like this occur, some of the Catholic bishops come out and declare that union is close and that some breakthrough has been made. This is nothing new.

[KahiroSamo]

I was surprised it was published by the Moscow Times. I thought it would have been a Catholic paper

[Muesrasrs]

For starters, why believe Reuters?

Second, the whole article is sprinkled with pro-Rome sentiment. I see nothing in the article that suggests Rome is interested in re-joining "the Church". What is a sister Church anyway? We are ONE Church. Not two lungs of the body of Christ.

Paul

[9V4i8xw1]

These sort of talks need to be seen to be at least taking place. If only Papal headship was the only issue. I think the Catholic model of mission is usually one of attrition. Being large and universal it has a critical mass that draws the dis-affected from other communions, such as the Anglicans. My personal take on the situation is that Catholicism is in terminal decline although they would be loath to admit it and that Holy Orthodoxy both in the East and West is on the increase. Best to sit it out and wait until one by one they join us. That is the way they have always done business. Apart from anything else this meetings are at least a good excuse for a hearty lunch!

[Progniusis]

It's a true blessing that the Russian Church has the faith to oppose the ecumenical heresy being espoused by those who call on both sides - Orthodox and Roman Catholic - to "adapt" their faith to the "divided" Church.

Russia's challenge to Christian unity
By Phil Lawler | September 28, 2010 8:30 PM

The Catholic-Orthodox theological discussions, taking place in Vienna this
week, hit a snag when the leader of the Russian Orthodox delegation lodged
an emphatic dissent against the consensus that the early, undivided Church
recognized the primacy of the Bishop of Rome.

That position is a definite deal-breaker, because the theme for discussion
at this session of the joint theological commission is the understanding of
papal primacy during the first Christian millennium-that is, prior to the
schism that split the Christian world into East and West. The head of the
Russian delegation, Metropolitan Hilarion, argued that the primacy of the
Bishop of Rome had never been recognized in the East. If that's the case,
the entire discussion is moot.

http://www.catholicculture.org/comme...otn.cfm?id=712

[Aeaefee]

Here's another article about the recent talks.

"Primacy," Synodicality and Unity of the Church


---------------------


CONCLUSIONS
of the Conference of the Holy Metropolis of Piraeus
Topic: "Primacy," Synodicality and Unity of the Church



"Papal ‘primacy' has no theological foundation, no legitimacy from the Holy Spirit and no ecclesiological legitimacy. It is clearly based on a worldly understanding of authority." This, among other things, was the conclusion of the theological conference which was organized by the Holy Metropolis of Piraeus in the Peace and Friendship Stadium (Melina Mercouri Hall) on 28 April 2010, and which was a success with many clergy and laity present.


The conference was also honored by the presence of His Beatitude Hieronymos, Archbishop of Athens and All Greece, who also started the conference off. Also present were: His Eminence Seraphim, Metropolitan of Kythira; Pavlos, Metropolitan of Glyfada; and Melito, Bishop of Marathon.


The topic "Primacy," Synodicality and Unity of the Church was expounded upon in two sessions with seven speakers: His Eminence Seraphim, Metropolitan of Piraeus, Hieromonk Luke Grigoriatis, Prof. Aristidis Papadakis (University of Maryland), Protopresbyter George Metallinos, Protopresbyter Theodore Zisis, Protopresbyter Anastasios Gotsopoulos and Prof. Dimitrios Tselengidis.


From the presentations and the discussion that followed, it was concluded that: unity belongs to the nature of the Church as it is the body of Christ and communion in Him. The true Church is one. The unity of the Church in all its interpretations - structural or charismatic (grace-bearing) - clearly has its foundation in the Holy Spirit. It is extended mystically, but is maintained, fostered and apparent chiefly through holy communion.


According to the "Confession of Faith" of the Synod of Constantinople in 1727, "Therefore no other head whatsoever is accepted in this Eastern Church, save only our Lord Jesus Christ, from the Father given to the whole Church and its foundation." According to Orthodox ecclesiology, "primate" is not meant generally and indefinitely without the presence of the particular synod of a region.


The concept of a rank of honor (that is the term which Orthodox ecclesiastical tradition uses opposed to the subsequent term "primacy" that the papists use) expresses and ensures the unity and the synodicality of the Orthodox Catholic Church. The pentarchy of the patriarchal thrones is the form which the Church gave to the concept of a rank of honor during the first millennium.


The authority of the "primate," which derives from the rank of honor, is a fruit of synodicality, while the authority the bishop of Rome had already started to appropriate during the first millennium is a result of the abolition of the synodical organization of the Church.


In the Church of the first millennium there was no papal primacy "by divine right" in jurisdiction or authority over the whole Church. On the contrary, the Church had the right to make decisions about its administration without the Pope, even in spite of his strong opposition, and these decisions were universally valid.


After the schism of 1054, the increasing claim of the popes for primacy of authority over the whole Church completely subverted the structure of the mystical body of the Church inspired by the Holy Spirit. It makes synodicality (as a function of this body inspired by the Holy Spirit) relative - practically abolishing it - and introduces the worldly mindset to it. It nullifies the equality of bishops, misappropriates the complete administrative authority of the whole Church, essentially setting aside the Theanthropos (the God-Man) and making a man the visible head of the Church. In this way the ancestral sin is repeated in this institution.


True unity takes place when there is unity in faith, in worship, and administration. This is the model of unity in the ancient Church, which the universal Orthodox Church continues unchanged. Unia introduces a false unity and is based on a heretical ecclesiology, since it allows different forms of the faith and worship, and makes unity contingent on the recognition of the primacy of the pope, which is an institution of human justice, and undermines the synodical structure of the administration of the Church, which is an institution of divine justice. Multiformity is only acceptable in secondary matters of local traditions and customs.


After the First Vatican Council (1870) and especially the Second Vatican Council (1962-1964) papal primacy does not comprise a simple administrative assertion, but an essential dogma of faith absolutely necessary for the salvation of the faithful. Its denial incurs the anathema of the First Vatican Council, whose validity remains still after the Second Vatican Council.


As the host of the conference Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus emphasized in his introduction, "Due to the heretical and blasphemous doctrine of the primacy of the bishop of Rome and the spiritual ramifications which come from it (such as the "infallibility" of the Pope and his autocratic-monarchic despotism over the whole body of the religious community under him), Papism has developed into an autocratic-monarchic system of mystic ideology and perversion of the meaning of the Church. It has proven to be modern Roman-Frank ethnicism (paganismus) in a spiritual disguise, has taken away the mystical freedom in Christ of each of [the Church's] members and has turned out to be the inevitable and fateful cause of the falling away from the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church into hundreds of different heresies, and an insurmountable obstacle to their possible return."


At the assessment of the participants of the current theological dialogue between Orthodox and Roman-Catholics, its attempt at the restoration of ecclesiastical communion must somehow - beyond the elimination of the heretical teachings of Rome (Filioque, created grace, infallibility, purgatory, etc.) - aim also at the definite elimination of papal primacy and not at some commonly acceptable interpretation of it.


Finally, the syncretistic framework of "unity in diversity" is considered unacceptable and cannot become acceptable as "a model for the restoration of full communion."

[jeaccatty]

Here's another article about the recent talks.

"Primacy," Synodicality and Unity of the Church

marie, could you please provide a citation for the source of your article? Thank you
Fr David

[popsicesHoupe]

Is there a way to find this "Crete Document?" I tried google and nothing came up that was related directly to this.

That's because "Crete Document" isn't its official name. It refers to the document The Role of the Bishop of Rome in the Communion of the Church in the First Millennium, Joint Coordinating Committee for the Theological Dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, Aghios Nikolaos, Crete, Greece, back in October 2008.

I found what appears to be the complete document on an Italian Catholic website (the document itself is in English). From other sources, the document was apparently a draft which was prepared but not finalized.

Also, since I was searching anyway, I found the article Marie quoted on the website of the Holy Monastery of Pantocrator in Greece.

[Grenader]

I was kind of worried when I first read the post. If I wanted to become Catholic I would have done so. The pope was never considered in the East to be able to make statements concerning the entire Church. Bishop Hilarion's clarifications were comforting, like usual.

The Catholics would have to strengthen the principle of synodality, by which a church leader consults bishops before making important decisions, he added. The Pope merely consults bishops before making decisions? My foot. The pope will have to make more than a mere consulting of bishops before making a decision.