[Romarionsion]

Eugenics?

WTF is wrong with you?!

[scemHeish]

Better health through smoking.

[Crilosajsamq]

Eugenics?

WTF is wrong with you?!

What is wrong with voluntary eugenics?

Or are you saying single women and lesbians choosing donors who are tall, good looking, healthy and have high SAT scores aren't practicing it? For that matter don't people who prefer to marry and reprouduce with beautifull women practice it?

The mothers were interviewed during pregnancy or the insemination process, and additionally when the children were 2, 5, 10 and 17 years old. Those children are now 18 to 23 years old. Children from lesbian families rated higher in social, academic and total competence. They also showed lower rates in social, rule-breaking, aggressive problem behavior.

The involvement of mothers may be a contributing factor, in addition to the fact that the pregnancies were planned, Gartrell said. yeah right, even when studies show that kids rased by single dads do better than kids raised by single moms?

[AndrewBoss]

The real question is whether eugenics even works.

Intelligence isn't 100 percent heritable.

[mirex]

I'm saying the lesbians in the study where probably well off.

So you're saying the behaviour of children of lesbian couples is not due the lesbians, but because of the economic factor, that the study didn't take that factor into account?

And you didn't address the second point: do you think there is a link between intelligence and wealth which lasts longer than one generation?

[riverakathy]

HC, being a self-described elitist, shouldn't be looking too negatively on eugenics.


Anyway, Heraclitus, I find it interesting how the study implies the kids grow up to have better lives in Lesbian households (a conclusion with obvious political implications) when the true reason for being well-adjusted is probably because they got to pick their sperm donors...

I highly doubt any of them were like "Yes, we'll take the donor with the family history of depression and drug abuse"

[wmtravelservice]

A eugenics program that favors the Jews. Now I've seen everything!

[Gofthooxdix]

WHY is Ben trying to argue that genes don't affect intelligence? I mean, are people really only smarter than dogs/dolphins/earthworms/etc. because of environmental factors?

[Tjfyojlg]

Heraclitus assumes a few things:

Human Cognitive ability is a single general entity, depictable as a single number.
Cognitive ability has a heritability of between 40 and 80 percent and is therefore primarily genetically based.
IQ is essentially immutable, fixed over the course of a life span.
IQ tests measure how "smart" or "intelligent" people are and are capable of rank ordering people in a linear order.
IQ tests can measure this accurately.
IQ tests are not biased with regard to race ethnic group or socioeconomic status.

none of those are a given.

[Clunlippibe]

WHY is Ben trying to argue that genes don't affect intelligence? I mean, are people really only smarter than dogs/dolphins/earthworms/etc. because of environmental factors?

No they are smarter because God gives them a soul.

[ansarigf]

This is a terrible argument.

We have bigger brains and they work in a different way.

Why on earth would differentiation between two people have any similarity between the differences between dogs and people? Those are structural differences, it has nothing to do with genes.

See just like macro and micro evolution then?

Anycase Ben there are structual, size and even body-to-brain mass ratio diferences between people.

[8Uxtkz7F]

Heraclitus:

I just skimmed the article, but the study seemed to only be concerned with psychological well-being. I don't see the relevance of IQ. (though I'm sure those kids were smarter than average just as much as their more well-adjusted than average just because they came from the cream of the crop as far as sperm donors go)

[wiweimeli]

We have bigger, different brains because of our DNA. Structural differences result from genes. And genes vary within a species. There's no perfect measure of intelligence but it's reasonable for lesbians to pick a donor who seems gifted. What's the gene for intelligence then?

[ZonaPutaX]

Heraclitus:

I just skimmed the article, but the study seemed to only be concerned with psychological well-being. I don't see the relevance of IQ. (though I'm sure those kids were smarter than average just as much as their more well-adjusted than average just because they came from the cream of the crop as far as sperm donors go)

The article dosen't say anything about eugenics. As I've quoted before they've come up with silly explanations.

Anycase I see you agree what is the most likley explanation.

[PilotJargon]

What's the gene for intelligence then?

Given how complicated the brain is I imagine many, many genes have an effect on intelligence.

[neictscek]

Exactly. So the link you seem to make between wealth and intelligence here is retarded:

"a poor dim single mom living off welfare after following her gina tingles and getting preggers with an ex felon"

Will most likley have average kids. But she is also far less likley to have above average kids as well.


From wikipedia:


y is the expected IQ of the child,
x is the mean IQ of the population to which the parents belong,
h^2 is the heritability of IQ,
m and f are the IQs of the mother and father, respectively


f and especially m are above average in this study, is it a wonder y is also higher?

[Xtatotvk]

Heraclitus:

Are you 21?

[Aizutox]

Well I think Heraclitus' point is even if IQ is not a good proxy for intelligence, it doesn't change the fact that IQ has been (in some studies) shown to be correlated with other positive attributes such as income.

[goolen4you]

Which is my point. We simply don't how intelligence works wrt to the brain, let alone our DNA. This is why we have to use stone tools like IQ tests and make believe.

For all you know, the sperm donors could be swapped with others, and you'd never know the difference.

Sure, if you need a sperm donor why take into account a measure that correlates with school performance, job performance, and income, and appears to be significantly heritable?

[WXQMQFIr]

Gribbler,

People believe this to be the case. The question is how do we know those things to be true? People believe in many things. They believe that the shampoo that they buy from the health store is 'green' because they paid significantly more than at the grocery store.

The same is true for sperm banks. They believe that the sperm that they pay thousands of dollars for is significantly better than what they can get from a guy at a bar. It's all branding.

The second question, is how do you know that what you get is what you were promised?

You have absolutely no way of confirming that the sperm you get is what you wanted, or even that it has the characteristics claimed.

You are trusting that the person who donated the sperm accurately reported his IQ, and then that the sperm you get is actually his, and not someone else's.

The sperm banks have a vested interest to lie about either step.