Late Night Ponderings: Going for a MSc or MBA, is it worth it?
 

Semi-OT: Check out Palantir Technologies. They do some really cool financial apps (and some intelligence stuff that's hard to describe, but really neat), and would probably like your credentials. They dropped by my OS practicum lecture the other day (after our career fair) and demoed their stuff for us.

(they also mentioned that they were hiring)

I might intern for IBM this summer. Just had a phone interview the other day for their "Extreme Blue" thing (3 CS 1 MBA work on a single problem for 3 months).

Extreme Blue is a terrific program. When I was there, some US Extreme Blue teams even came by the Toronto lab to demo it, they go to do some globetrotting... http://www.discussworldissues.com/im...ons/icon14.gif

My observation is that a MSc is worth about 1-2 years experience while a PhD is worth 3-5 years experience. There are of course extra doors opened, glass ceilings which no longer exist/etc.

I don't know about the MBA. I would guess that unless you feel the need to retool, the MBA would be a better option than the MSc.

I haven't spent all that much time looking for work, and I have a physics degree and not a computer science degree.

JM

If the market isn't as good as he would like for his expertise, retooling in the education system for a year or two might be a good idea. Particularly if your future career path is likely to run into a ceiling without the MSc. Far better to retool when you aren't in as much demand than when you are in a lot of demand.

JM

If you weren't in a technical field I'd highly recommend a MBA. While I doubt that an MBA wouldn't do some good, I don't think it would be worth the investment. In all my years I've never seen not having one being a limiting factor in the computer technical industry. Technical people that have management skills are rare enough that they don't need anything to distinguish themselves from the masses, unlike other fields. They rise to the top automatically.

Now those skills could be useful if you were running a startup company, but then you'd be trying to impress investors and not bosses.

Originally posted by Pekka
I think it's more clear cut in favour of MBA. M.Sc. is nice and all, but what it is is basically just bunch of new courses on top of that B.Sc. and that thesis work. That's all it is. I don't think it will give you much interesting information or spark your creative side anymore. Few years ago, who knows, now, I don't know. Actually one of the things I'd considered that maybe MSc would spark my creative side. The past few years I've been doing trading systems which doesn't really lend itself well to creativity -- in most cases the solutions are clear-cut and proven.

With a thesis-driven Masters I was hoping to maybe blaze a new trail of some kind. Maybe in AI or machine learning, maybe in computer graphics, etc. One of the reasons I strongly considered the Masters is I've got so many people close to me in grad school right now that it's kind of funny -- my brother is doing a Masters in mechanical engineering (on his way to a PhD), my best friend went back to school for her MSc in CS and is about halfway done, and another close friend is doing a Masters in computer engineering. They're all doing things I find to be pretty interesting and usually different from what you'd get in the working world: my brother is experimenting with FIRE and new fire retardant systems, my best friend is writing geospatial algorithms for databases, and my friend is trying some new ideas for ASIC debugging.

MBA on the other hand is different. It's such a different acronym. It assumes more hands on type of action while doing it. That, and gives you more of the business perspective, which shouldn't be undermined by tech guys these days. It simply gives you much more diversity, and when you're in a position where they look for people into management, MBA can't hurt, but M.Sc. won't give you much edge. So as a positionining acronym, MBA would be better. As experience, MBA would be better. ANd of course with value in our world, MBA gives you more. That's the other thing, the MBA can be useful in perhaps accelerating a career in some kind of management. I don't believe they're required, but they do perhaps jumpstart that aspect.

In my mind M.Sc. is overrated. It doesn't really get much into research, doing research and you can see it in peoples thesis'. 99% have no idea what they're doing, nor were they able to formulate their way of doing things on their own or with help. Most oyu see is some project, possibly and at most a survey with no real analysis. For a tech guy it doesn't matter much anyway, but hte point is, if you are a tech guy, what is M.Sc. going to offer? Few more courses on things that you already likely know.

I think you have much more to gain with MBA as far as knowledge goes as well. You're a good tech guy already, so how about branching out, get that business lingo inside of you while you're at it? It can't hurt. M.Sc., however, might turn out ot be waste of time for you. Unless you're going for PhD, I don't see why you would take this route.

You're a tech guy, where my background is also. So I know you look at the things yourself, you learn by yourself, you don't need few courses to confirm what you already have experience on, which most likely is also irrelevant at times and doesn't work in real life.

I mean... even we do MBAs here, consesus is that for exampel information security is not just an "enabler of processes", which is sort of self justifying mantra to keep your job, but to compete with business units, to do battle of the budgets, to give value, to maximize and promote value growth to stakeholders. Most actual calculations we do is business these days anyway. It's a different field, but the point is, business knowledge is always going to give you POVs you can use that others don't have. And ultimately it will give you much more credible acronym if you want to change your train at some point. M.Sc. won't give you much value in the long run because you're already a professional and you have established yourself, and since you're not going into research and doctorate studies, I don't see the point versus MBA. http://www.discussworldissues.com/im...ons/icon14.gif

Originally posted by rah
If you weren't in a technical field I'd highly recommend a MBA. While I doubt that an MBA wouldn't do some good, I don't think it would be worth the investment. In all my years I've never seen not having one being a limiting factor in the computer technical industry. Technical people that have management skills are rare enough that they don't need anything to distinguish themselves from the masses, unlike other fields. They rise to the top automatically.

Now those skills could be useful if you were running a startup company, but then you'd be trying to impress investors and not bosses. Hmm...startup company. If I had some capital and a good enough idea that'd be pretty ideal. http://www.discussworldissues.com/im...ons/icon14.gif

I'm leaning towards trying to find a good job in Calgary, but still apply for either the MBA or MSc (probably MBA right now). If I don't find a suitable job, and I will be picky...then I'll try the school thing and ride out the economic slump.

http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...smilies/hm.gif

Originally posted by Kidicious
Please get an MBA so that you will atleast know something about business. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...ilies/wink.gif An MBA opens a lot of doors. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/smile.gifhttp://www.discussworldissues.com/im...ons/icon14.gif You might even check with your personnel department to see what degrees have the best chance of advancing your career. Some companies will even help pay for their people to get advanced degrees which are connected to their jobs.

PHB is where the real money (and power) is; MSc is where the enjoyment is, at least for people like me. Whether you prefer the money/power or the more 'interesting' work, is up to you to decide. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/smile.gif

When asked if I'd rather make plenty of money and program all day, or make double or triple plenty of money and shift papers around and make budgets and such, I know (at least for now) what my answer is ... http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/smile.gif

Some decent schools (Depaul, for example, locally) have MIS programs attached to their MBA programs. That might be something to look into as well (as it sort of crosses the line between the two).

Originally posted by snoopy369
PHB is where the real money (and power) is; MSc is where the enjoyment is, at least for people like me. Whether you prefer the money/power or the more 'interesting' work, is up to you to decide. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/smile.gif

When asked if I'd rather make plenty of money and program all day, or make double or triple plenty of money and shift papers around and make budgets and such, I know (at least for now) what my answer is ... http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/smile.gif I dunno, there are guys at work who are purely technical and earn well into the six figures at about 28-30 years old. I'm not sure it's true that the real money is always in management, it's just easier to get money in management. If you're actually very good at what you do, the money is very good in the tech side as well too.

Some decent schools (Depaul, for example, locally) have MIS programs attached to their MBA programs. That might be something to look into as well (as it sort of crosses the line between the two). I wouldn't touch MIS with a ten-foot pole. It's far closer to IT work than real compsci work, and it's not really management either. Danger, danger, danger.

There's (almost) always more money in management for an equal quality of work - if you're that ****ing good that you earn 150k+ as a tech, an equivalently good person on the management side would be CIO of a mid-size company and on the way to seven figures. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/smile.gif

That said, my point was that as a programmer you can make plenty of money - it's just you have to have an acceptable range of 'plenty of money'. To me, $150k/year in 2007 dollars is plenty of money for life - if I never make more than that I'll be perfectly happy, and heck, $90k is probably plenty for me ultimately; I'm not a big 'money' person. (Also, my GF will probably outearn me over the long haul, so our family income is even higher...) But that's a personal question, of course - everyone has different tastes and different needs.

With MIS - I was thinking that 'real IT work' plus management might be more palatable to some than 100% management. Definitely would be for me, anyway. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/smile.gif

Yeah, I personally am not after 'real' money. I figure that I will be happy with >40k, and that I will have. I mean, all other things being equal more is better than less, but it isn't the crucial part of my decision making.

JM

My brother-in-law has a MS in CS. In a typical tech geek fashion he told me I was an idiot when I decided to get my MBA, told me that I should get a masters degree in engineering or technical discipline instead. I told him that if I wanted to advance in a technical discipline I could do so with the degree I have. However, if I want to hop the fence to manage and lead technical people I would need an MBA. He scoffed at me.

Last time I saw him he told me he wished he got a MBA instead, and was thinking about going back to school again. My sister won't let him though, so he's screwed.

Anyway, rah makes a good point, and by the same token if you haven't received the opportunity to move into management by now than you need the schooling for the chance. Sometimes you have to make your own doors. I don't think the MS will teach you anything you don't know or can't lear on your own. Business will be a whole new world for you, as it is for me, and it's always nice to have a tour guide to start.

Well, if you've got that M.Sc., you still lack the MBA. If you've got MBA, M.Sc. doesn't matter. That's the way I see it anyway, of course it depends what people want to do.

I don't know, maybe it will spark your creative side but it's still a risk. The courses might suck. There might be boring projects going on. Or they could be awesome. I think you should go with your gut feeling. But I think you will learn more getting that MBA.

You work with snoop?

He needs to work on his attention to detail. The Fantasy Hockey League has butchered stats due to his work. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...ilies/wink.gif

Did you hire him before you met him on Poly?

besides, anyone that can kick my ass in CIV IV MP can't be stupid. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...milies/lol.gif http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...milies/lol.gif http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...milies/lol.gif

Originally posted by DrSpike
I think you should do an Arts degree. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/smile.gif If I wanted to be homeless I could just quit my job. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...milies/mad.gif

Stanford: One of the best in the nation. If you can get in there you're set.