[Xlkl9SFd]

You nee to provide an education, and provide an atmosphere and culture that is focused on success. You also need to provide a stable and loving home environment (For most people), and keep them healthy and undistracted by sex/games/entertainment.

Seems like it would be pretty difficult.

JM

[nuncEtedben]

This sounds like a question for GePap.

[Rnlvifov]

What, exactly, is the purpose of creating this cadre of ubermensch?

edit: nevermind, you apparently don't want to discuss that (gee whiz, I wonder why?).

I don't know the best way to create an elite, and if I did I wouldn't tell you.

-Arrian

[laperuzdfhami]

Originally posted by Arrian

What, exactly, is the purpose of creating this cadre of ubermensch?
Call it a whim, if you will. Society needs somebody to look up to, and if I get the chance, I'm going to make it happen. Plus, it's something I wish someone would have given me. There is a type of person who takes to things very well when they're formally trained in them, but not so well when they're expected to "pick up" skills or absorb them by osmosis. I am that type of person. Maybe it's to spare others the suffering I had to go through? From the kindness of my heart?

And because I'm a megalomaniac who'd do something like this just for the lulz of knowing that this little order will dominate society for a thousand years after I'm gone?

Originally posted by Arrian

edit: nevermind, you apparently don't want to discuss that (gee whiz, I wonder why?).

I don't know the best way to create an elite, and if I did I wouldn't tell you.

-Arrian Now that's just being small-minded.

As it is, I'm not asking for "the best way", I'm asking for your way.

[Pheddytrourry]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


I am not saying not allow everything. But the distraction of those three is probably the number one reason why people don't acheive what they are capable of.

JM I believe mastery of those will assist more in helping people acheive higher goals.

[BenBoobmers]

Originally posted by BlackCat
Just read this book

http://www.amazon.com/Overseer-Jonat.../dp/051512558X I saw the review. I don't want an army of footsoldiers, I want a true elite, an individual every single one.

[Slonopotam845]

Go to a forum on the internets and ask it's denizens to tell you how to make ur kids "elite".

[Sleedyhex]

Originally posted by ramseya
Want elite humans?

Send them to the US Marines. You can't be elite if you're trained not to think.

[AntonayPina]

That sounds just as useless as the team-building **** most companies waste time with.

I'm happy that every now and then Marines need to do something requiring basic thought, but it really does pale in comparison to the kind of thinking you need to do in a far more cerebral world.

Thinking quickly on your feat is important, but the Marines are far from the best place to gain that skill. In fact, the rigid command structure of the Marines encourages obedience over original thought in most cases.

[margoaroyo]

Originally posted by Patroklos


And to think you were making fun of Gepap...



Quite the opposite Asher. Not that that would mean they were not elite anyway given the definition. Just how the **** is it "quite the opposite"? You're telling me the Marines are all about encouraging original thought versus obedience? I suppose that's why they let you wear whatever you like and do whatever you want whenever you want?

[brandiweb]

Originally posted by ramseya
Asher:

What about the Marines in the Intelligence, Counterintelligence, and Human Intelligence fields? Logistics? You think they don't do anything cerebral? I'm sure they do, but it'd be no different than a civilian in an equivalent role.

Intelligence is definitely required to be an officer in the US military. Sure. But it doesn't make them elite, or anything close to it.

[antonyandruleit]

Originally posted by ramseya
Asher:

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/class186/part2-sule.php



and from Inc Magazine:

http://www.inc.com/magazine/19980401/906.html

Thinking quickly on your feet is a critical prerequisite for all officers and NCO's. Well, if the thinking is limited to "how do I accomplish this task the most efficient way and please my masters and their goals" instead of actually having own ideas and .... well I guess it depends on the definition of elite.

[eliniaguilefp7m]

Well, if the thinking is limited to "how do I accomplish this task the most efficient way and please my masters and their goals" Is not incompatable with...

actually having own ideas. I suppose any scientist/politician/buisnessmen/athelete working for anyone to accomplish anything is not elite?

[Brewpralgar]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Is not incompatable with...



I suppose any scientist/politician/buisnessmen/athelete working for anyone to accomplish anything is not elite? You have to be completely stupid to compare the absolute rigidity of the command structure in the marines to that in the civilian world. Yes, we have managers. No, we don't kill people because our managers tell us to.

The military is extremely obedience-heavy. There's a reason bootcamps are designed the way they were to foster such obedience, and there's a reason civilians don't have the same.

For instance: A marine is ordered to move from Point A to point B.
I am told "I need software to do this."

Now, compare and contrast the difference in level of original thought and thinking between the two tasks...

[bensabath]

Hmm interesting. I'm glad to see the responses from the marines because originally I would have leaned towards areeing with asher but having read the well thought out repsonses, I'll give the marines considerably more credit on the cereberal side.

Of more interest I notice ASHER comparing the thinking side of marines vs. what he does. Does this mean that ASHER considers himself part of the elite that should be emulated here. I thought that was someone else's schtick here.

[tropicana]

Originally posted by rah
Hmm interesting. I'm glad to see the responses from the marines because originally I would have leaned towards areeing with asher but having read the well thought out repsonses, I'll give the marines considerably more credit on the cereberal side.

Of more interest I notice ASHER comparing the thinking side of marines vs. what he does. Does this mean that ASHER considers himself part of the elite that should be emulated here. I thought that was someone else's schtick here. I'm certainly far more elite in terms of a thinking man's occupation compared to a marine.

It's just the easiest comparison. I could just as well compared an engineer or an investment banker, basically any non-manual labour civilian job to compared favourably to the marines in the "intelligence required" department.

[Jannet.K]

I'm largely independent. I work on a team. We gather requirements from the client, together we formulate an architecture, then I go off and do my modules. I design them how I want, when I want, etc. The "rules" are to give reasonable estimates and timelines and "do right by the client"... But you are still producing what someone else wants, according to their requirements. You are a obviously just a cog in a machine.

Yeah, like how to move where he's told?

I've no doubt there's some basic thought required, but to even pretend it's anywhere near the level of thought and analysis required by many people in the civilian world is just bizarre. Most Marines are footsoldiers...simple as that. You can spin "having to figure out how to cross a river" as "tackling unique problems", but we both know that's putting it nicely. How many years did you spend in the Marines?

Yes. You know of non military Marine Intel officers. Please to elaborate

Irregardless of what you think about their jobs, that doesn't make them not elite in their field.

[lE3l6Lgn]

Originally posted by Patroklos
But you are still producing what someone else wants, according to their requirements. You are a obviously just a cog in a machine. I see you missed the point completely.

How many years did you spend in the Marines? How many years did you?

**** off with this kind of stall tactic, it pisses me off. Deal with the meat of the argument. Use that intelligence of yours that you've honed swabbing the deck of a rusty ship in the middle of nowhere.

You know of non military Marine Intel officers. Please to elaborate You're not helping the case that Navy/Marine people are smart when you repeatedly miss the ****ing point and misread what is said.

I obviously don't know civilian marine intel officers -- what I said was they have equivalent intellectual requirements to those in the civilian world.

Irregardless That is NOT A WORD. A common mistake by common people who are NOT ELITE.

of what you think about their jobs, that doesn't make them not elite in their field. Now you're reframing the argument. If this is about being "elite in the field", then every field ever is elite. That's a stunningly insightful commentary from our intellectual Navy comrade.

[9enackivegliva]

Originally posted by ramseya
I really didn't realize that the sales guys in your office conducted liaison with military and government agencies to provide force protection information. Now you do. One of our biggest clients is the MoD of the UK and DoD in the US. One of our contracts is actually to design software to power a "21st century staging room", a polite word for "war room".

I didn't know they conducted terrorism threat analysis and anti-terrorism awareness classes, and interrogated prisoners-of-war. They obviously don't interrogate PoWs, but given the US' track record for that right now I'm not sure you want to be bragging about who is responsible for that.

You're ably demonstrating the lack of intelligence most marines have. Obviously the duties performed on the job of the a Marine-specific task will not be replicated in the real world, but that does not mean that the basic requirements to perform those tasks are not the same. In this case, they're almost spot on what we look for in technical sales people.

[Jimambol]

Originally posted by Patroklos
You are smart enough to realize that distinction is irrelevant. I am smart enough to recognize that the civilian world fosters more original and free thought than the obedience-heavy military.

Niether do Marines. If Marines cannot kill people, I'm not sure what their point is.

You obviously have no concept of what boot camp is really for. It really is no different in concept than any educational program, just more zealous. You've obviously never studied any social psychology. You are apparently very naive about the fundamentals of how a military actually works, which is funny because you're part of it.

How about this instead:

A Marine is told to figure out how to and portect a convoy stretching 100 miles over uneven and contested terrain that is not entirely known in support of a tank battalion occupying 200 square miles, but we never know exactly where in that area the tanks need to be at any time but they always have to be refueled.

You being told to clean the Cheeto cumbs off your office chair. That's a pretty silly example because we hire a cleaning staff to clean the Cheeto crumbs.

In all seriousness, your example is ridiculous. How often do such requests come in, and how exactly does every marine involved need to think about that? It seems to me that 1 out of every 200 or so Marines need to think about that. Even then, that kind of "challenge" is no more intellectually rigorous than everyday tasks as a professional civilian.

You're finding a contrived situation where someone in the marine command structure needs to think a little bit, then acting like such kind of planning requires "elite" thought (when it actually doesn't) and also pretending that it is a common process to all marines (when it is not). The vast majority of marines simply do what they're told and how they're told. In the civilian world, unless you're working at a minimum wage type job, there's far more room for original thought and procedure...and that's entirely the point you keep missing.