[joulseenjoync]

Also, who the hell is the OECD and what the **** do they think they're doing telling Canada/Alberta how to run themselves?

[gariharrr]

And it would make Alberta a major investor on the world stage at a time when many major projects are crying out for money from sovereign wealth funds. This is a teriffic idea Asher! Just think: Alberta could trade valuable oil money for sub-prime filled banks! Not to mention all the incompetence you could help subsidize.

[bestbyV]

National Energy Program. Fed policy in the 80's that drove AB nuts. They still hate Liberals today b/c of it.

[Tainlyferfara]

The province/federal split in Canada is interesting when considering the state/federal split in the US ... I wonder if the balance of power will swing one way or the other as a result of the oil issue?

[DoctorTOneery]

Originally posted by snoopy369
The province/federal split in Canada is interesting when considering the state/federal split in the US ... I wonder if the balance of power will swing one way or the other as a result of the oil issue? That's the fear, especially as Ontario enters a recession while Alberta is still booming. Since the majority of Canada is in central Canada, I don't think it to be outrageous for them to overstep boundaries again and stake a claim in provincial resources.

Alberta hates the federal government even when a Calgarian is prime minister. Any movement towards federal takeover of provincial rights will be a massively big deal out west.

Perhaps the last straw?

[slimsex]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
A Calgarian? You mean a Torontonian carpetbagger like yourself Asher? Harper has lived in Alberta since 1980. That doesn't make him a Torontonian to anyone of reasonable intelligence...he's also very much a Calgary Flames fan. And tell me which riding he represents and where he got his economics degrees?

Similarly, I'm 10 months away from moving back to Calgary.

Interestingly enough...Harper was a Liberal and part of the "Young Liberals Club" until the NEP. Then he became a conservative.

BTW, if BC joins Alberta in separation it'll be because you guys begged to come with us. You'd be lucky we'd let you join us.

[AcecePesFeacy]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
He lived there for 20 years. That's a pretty significant chunk. He hasn't lived there for 28 years, and when he did live there he didn't have a choice. You lose.

He represented Calgary West, and then later Calgary Southwest. Got his degree in the University of Calgary.

I'm aware of that. So he's lived in Calgary more than any other city in his life, he roots for the Calgary hockey team, he represents a riding in Calgary, his home is in Calgary, he went to university in Calgary, and yet he's not a Calgarian. Wow, Ben.

Large deepwater port. More mines and trees then you can shake a stick at. I\m sure we'd be begging to join Alberta. Mines and trees? WTF? That's small beans.

As for your port, who cares. Pipelines, *****es!

Tell me, Ben, how much does Alberta use your port right now? And would BC actually forbid Alberta's use of the port (which they'd pay for) had they not been in the same country? I don't think so.

Out of all of BC, Alberta, and Saskatchewan now...BC is the weakest link.

[elektikakass]

Originally posted by Richelieu
I guess it's a sign of the times that greed has replaced nationalism as the reason of choice for wanting to separate. It's about respecting the rights that have been afforded. In this situation the greed historically came from out east, which stepped on rights afforded to the provinces for the benefit of people out east to the expense of people out west.

Make no mistake, the only reason Quebec is still in Canada is greed. You guys thrive off the money Alberta sends you.

[uncoodync]

Some time ago, we had a good discussion about the Heritage Fund on Poly.

I don't know why the fund has to invest primarily overseas like the Norwegian fund. Alaska's fund invests primarily domestically, AFAIR. There are downsides as well as benefits to investing primarily overseas. And Canada's a lot larger than Norway.

[nofkayalk]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Which is why he hitched his train to the imperial oil train and came out west. What makes him different then all the Newfies who work out in the patch? Nothing at all, if the newfies who moved to Alberta consider Alberta their home.

My father moved out from Ontario to Alberta the exact same time as Harper. He is very much a Calgarian.

So if he grew up in Edmonton, rooted for Wayne and his boys, went to U of A, and represents a riding in Edmonton, he wouldn't be an albertan? This makes no sense.

Oh, and lots of offshore oil. No, compared to Alberta you've got virtually no oil.

So you are happy with just selling to the Americans? Why would you let them own your ass just as hard as the folks in Ottawa?
Why would they own our ass like Ottawa? I'm not saying we should join the USA. Again, WTF.

Which one? I'm curious to see if you have any knowledge whatsoever. Any. I am asking you, what ports does Alberta use and how much do we use them?

I do know the vast majority of Alberta oil goes through pipelines to the US.

Of course, that's because you see Toronto as the centre of the universe. Again, WTF? You're so out there, Ben, just stop posting.

[mincbiori]

Originally posted by Asher

It's about respecting the rights that have been afforded. In this situation the greed historically came from out east, which stepped on rights afforded to the provinces for the benefit of people out east to the expense of people out west.

Make no mistake, the only reason Quebec is still in Canada is greed. You guys thrive off the money Alberta sends you. BS. Eastern Canada sustained the West for over 100 years and now that you guys are hitting the Jackpot you're just too happy to forget about it and go your own way.

Ungrateful childrens.

Regardless. Canada is not a country: it's an illusion. This is just another example.

[ditpiler]

What do we owe Quebec Richelieu?

Building a railway out here?

You guys hemmed and hawed on that until we threatened to secede.

Unlike Alberta we never were federal territory.

[teridbruse]

So are you if you believe that BC is not > Saskatchewan. I mean wtf?

Just so Ben knows.

GDP/capita:

Alberta: $66,644
Saskatchewan: $43,330
BC: $39,658

[Virosponna]

You guys sound like Texans.

[DzjwMKo5]

I think it's a very much more complex issue than you state, Asher (and also more complex than the easterners would state, of course). The question must boil down to, to what extent does the Nation own the natural resources, as opposed to the province; and I don't mean in the constitution, but ... I don't want to say 'morally', exactly, but in terms of what is right for everyone.

Why, for example, does Alberta as a province have a right to benefit from the oil under it, as opposed to Canada? (As opposed to, say, no governmental or societal revenue at all, or only city level, etc.) The answer is, of course, that there should be some benefit at all levels, but the specifics of how much are what is to be debated.

Of course, in some sense Alberta could simply walk away - as you suggest - but there are three factors there: first, to what degree Alberta presently benefits from the Union (from being part of a larger nation, national identity, international respect, trade, immigration, etc.); second, to what degree Alberta has already benefited from the Union (the initial development and exploration of Alberta was largely due to the East, I would presume), and thus to what degree does Alberta 'owe' the nation; and third, to what degre Alberta might in the future benefit, say if oil suddenly became cheap, or their oil ran out, or some other resource which is only in Quebec or PEI or such suddenly became far more valuable.

It is not simply greed, and it is not as simple of an equation as you would imply, Asher...

[uaodnabnjz]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Alberta should just merge with us. Legally you have no right to separation at all. We'd pay Canada for you and the deal would be done. You are desperate to merge with Alberta because you want a sugar daddy. Alberta's purpose in leaving would be to stop funding welfare cases, of which BC tends to be.

Couple in the fact that BC is full of hippies, and why would the Alberta government (conservative for decades) want to dilute their power like that?

There's only 7 provinces that can legally separate, BC, Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, New Brunswick and PEI. All the prairie provinces are the legal creations of the federal government. This is factually incorrect.

All provinces under the Clarity Act of 2000 are allowed to secede.

http://www.freealberta.com/secession.html

[2puO4Rhf]

If Alberta seceded, can you imagine the tarriffs they'd be subjected to by the rest of Canada?

[xpllmr]

Technically, we can't take the Peace River region with us.

We ceded it back to the Federal government after confederation, and they gave it back to us in 1930. The rest though, would be ours.

http://www.calverley.ca/Part08-Agriculture/8-27.html

[pharmaclid]

Originally posted by BeBro
Secession? Is Canada a failed state? Yes.

[Wxrxnhar]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


The whole reason Alberta has the borders that it does, is because of the Federal government, and the creation of the province in 1905.

I'm sorry Asher, Alberta has no right to legally secede, they have no legal existence apart from Canada, that is not legally defined by Canada.



Sure, that's exactly what will happen Asher. You have to be willing to pay the federal government for the huge swathe of territory in order to secede. Quebec is different, at least in the small territory that they had prior to confederation. They would have to do a two step process, the first being ask to be released from confederation, and the second, would be to leave Canada altogether.

If they wanted the northern territory, they would have to purchase it from Canada. You are completely and 100% full of ****. Click the damn link and google "The Clarity Act" of 2000 further and learn a thing or two.

Additionally, the 1930 National Resources Transfer Acts corrected the omission of the Alberta Act of 1905 by giving Alberta full and complete control of all "crown lands and national resources". Alberta already "owns" this land, as of 1930, and doesn't need to "buy" it from anyone.