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Old 07-31-2007, 12:18 PM   #1
craditc

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Default Let's talk about the Son of Jacob
Read the whole Old Testament. Yahweh spends half his time telling the Jews they're the most special people in the whole wide world and he just love them to bits -- and the other half telling them what worthless disappoints they are, and punishing them severly for it. And its nearly impossible to tell when he's going to be loving God, and when he's going to be angry, violent God.

You know who behaves like that? Alcoholics. Seriously.

So just think of the Jews -- or at least the Israelis -- as Adult Children of Alcoholics. it actually explains quite a bit.
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Old 07-31-2007, 01:31 PM   #2
Mambattedge

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And anger management classes
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Old 07-31-2007, 01:34 PM   #3
HomePageOEMfreeSOFTWARE

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Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
And anger management classes
He can't get out of them- he admitted it after all:

Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. A neglectful parent, given to unpredictable outbursts of rage and xenophobia with genocidal tendencies.

Hmm, there goes the neighbourhood.
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Old 07-31-2007, 01:56 PM   #4
Phighicle

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Originally posted by Cort Haus

Hardly surprising it was felt in some quarters that he needed an image makeover for the sequel. New, Yahweh Lite in the modish Cana Wine Jars !

Ideal with fish and unleavened bread, or for that surprise supper- in Emmaus or anywhere else.


Special introductory offer- the high interest Jesus Saves account.

(For Muslims this is in the brochure labelled 'Issas' )

Our Hebrew brethren have the Moses Investment Account options.



(Early redemption unavailable)
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Old 07-31-2007, 03:32 PM   #5
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You know who behaves like that? Alcoholics. Seriously. Jesus could have turned that water into anything...
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:21 PM   #6
adsexpist

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But it is interesting that he chose to turn it into wine...

In fact another clue is when you drink 'the blood of Christ' in church in the form of wine - those blood/alcohol levels must be off the scale!
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:26 PM   #7
orison

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Originally posted by rah
Nice try, so I changed the thread title but left it in the first post. but this shouldn't stop the discussion. except there are 12 sons of Jacob.
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:29 PM   #8
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So that doesn't change why I changed it.
Mere details , but I stand corrected.
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:32 PM   #9
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Yes it does. Because of your absurd vendetta against Asher nobody knows which son of Jacob we're talking about...

Are you really prepared to go to these childish lengths for the sake of not seeing his name on the OT?
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:34 PM   #10
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Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Read the whole Old Testament. Yahweh spends half his time telling the Jews they're the most special people in the whole wide world and he just love them to bits -- and the other half telling them what worthless disappoints they are, and punishing them severly for it. And its nearly impossible to tell when he's going to be loving God, and when he's going to be angry, violent God.
Thats the point - to be chosen to be a kingdom of priests, to be chosen to have a special relationship with G-d. You guys are looking for a "fair" relationship to G-d, that of a ruler to citizens, or a parent over children. Some traditional Jews might say that that makes sense, since that is the relationship YOU were meant to have. Our relationship is different. Its more intimate, more passionate, more unpredictable, more fraught with all kinds of emotions. Its more like a relationship with a lover. Peaks of hope and joy, to depths of disappointment and dispair.


Harold Bloom, otoh, the literary critic, sees the unpredictability of G-d, His "uncanniness" as Bloom calls it, as a residual of an earlier text, the "J" text, which is said to be the earliest source text for the Hebrew bible. The God of "J" is a different figure from the calm but judgemental G-d of "E". The God of J has an intimate, passionate uncanny relationship to the world. IIUC, Bloom relates this to Gnosticism.
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:36 PM   #11
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In other words, God is a loon...
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:38 PM   #12
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Originally posted by MOBIUS
In other words, God is a loon... still not interested in talking about the tribe of asher, are you?
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:40 PM   #13
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Originally posted by lord of the mark


If you believe in God, what land does not belong to God? To assign as he sees fit. Every so often, your mantle of respectability slips to reveal the true character underneath...
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:42 PM   #14
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Originally posted by lord of the mark
If you believe in God, what land does not belong to God? To assign as he sees fit. Seeing as God is evidently a somewhat subjective entity (though each believer / believer-group claims unswerving certainty and objectivity) the interpretation of the 'will of God' is inevitably going to be subject to a certain amount of ambiguity and difference-of-opinion. When applied to the ownership of land, a certain amount of discord and discomfort seems inevitable.

Put bluntly, that's a scary concept you have there.
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:58 PM   #15
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When Christians look at the Hebrew Bible, even athiest Christians, typically the Jews disappear, and all thats left is the "old Testament God", inferior, as always, to the "new Testament God". This is an old way for Christians to read scripture. Uh, we were taught that the Jews are God's chosen people and the Gentiles are the table scraps that God graciously let us in.

Not sure what 'Christian interpretation' you are looking at, but that's not been my experience.
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Old 07-31-2007, 05:00 PM   #16
Caliwany

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FREE ASHER

Lest we forget...


Someone needs to remind the mods that two wrongs don't make a right.
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Old 07-31-2007, 05:06 PM   #17
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Originally posted by lord of the mark Theres a tradition that gentiles arent supposed to read the Torah, cause they will misinterpret and distort it. Thats one of the things traditional Jews have against Christians. Because evidently the gentiles will find out just how little the Jews think of them - that their land can be stolen from them because the Jews think it's their God given right to do so, as you've so eloquently admitted...
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Old 07-31-2007, 05:12 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Sandman


Saying that God favours a specific place is a bit like saying he favours a particular soft drink or that he has a secret crush on Jennifer Lopez.
No, its saying he set aside a particular place to have a special status. I never used the word "favor".
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Old 07-31-2007, 05:16 PM   #19
CalBettaulp

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Originally posted by MOBIUS


Because evidently the gentiles will find out just how little the Jews think of them - that their land can be stolen from them because the Jews think it's their God given right to do so, as you've so eloquently admitted... Then it would also have to apply to the Jews, since they also have their land taken and given to gentiles by God.


No, the traditional reason is just what I said it was.
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Old 07-31-2007, 05:19 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Cort Haus


Allocating a special status to a particular soft drink would have a similar meaning here, surely. declaring a soft drink holy, set apart would, indeed, but Sandyman said "favoring"

Christians have holy water, certain foods and drinks for use in the ancient temple were set apart and holy, etc. Some mystically inclined Jews would say that there is holiness in all kinds of everyday objects. But thats not what I read in Sandmans post, rather an attempt to take our disdainful attitudes toward branding practices and celebrity culture, and somehow associate with the idea of a holy place, or of any kind of sanctification of the material. A nice rhetorical trick, but not convincing to me.

For a non-Jewish take on the sanctification of the material, and the consequences of abandoning it, see the final speech from Peter Schaefers "Equus"
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