[thargeagsaf]

I think the people that film it should be jailed, and that people who enjoy watching are morally lacking.

[juptVatoSoito]

Originally posted by Wezil


I'm not convinced on the first part (though I could be), but I agree completely on the second. QFT

[thakitt]

Taking advantage of the helpless
How is violent sports different?
How is ... construction work different?

Had the people been more well off, they wouldn't have worked in shitty jobs.

Where's the line between it's ok for someone poor to work in a really shitty job, where he is hurt - to it is not ok for someone poor to work in a specific really shitty job.?

[FelicitaJ]

Originally posted by Wezil
I'm not convinced on the first part (though I could be), but I agree completely on the second. Fights are supposed to be regulated, betting on them allowed only were legal. If people are setting up these unregulated fights, do you think they should be prosecuted for any illegal gambling and for putting public health at risk?

[smazibummigue]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs


Fights are supposed to be regulated, betting on them allowed only were legal. If people are setting up these unregulated fights, do you think they should be prosecuted for any illegal gambling and for putting public health at risk? AS I said, I'm not convinced we should prosecute the promoters of these fights.

If being an ******* was a felony these folk would be in serious trouble.

[HakSpeame]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
You know what I'm talking about - the videos of bums, ...What I was hoping for was two babes in thongs doing some kind of weird, reverse sumo wrestling. Now, that would be a bumfight!

[67Irralphaisa]

these first started in my city, as they were filmed here. I'm so proud. My mayor withrdrew their business license I believe. I'm not sure what became of that. My mayor steps over the boundaries of his job alot. But my city was a bit embarrassed that the bumfights were made here. In fact, my mayor is very embarrassed about the bum problem in general. It's real bad here. He has done some unconstitutional things like kick them out of parks. He closed circle park after a bum was killed there by another bum.

I was unaware these bumfights are still around. Perhaps they moved to other cities.

[standaman]

So. my argument is that the difference is abuse. These bums are being abused. Even if they agree to fight, it's still abuse in my books. And yes, there' sa big difference between pro fighters agreeing to fight and bums agreeing to fight for beer money in the street, and it's tangible and very real, just watch both, and you really have to twist the word pragmatic into new levels and depths to say there's no difference.

And you can say, well, Jackass guys are abusing themselves as well, well that's not the same either. They're doing pretty well, and the kick in it isn't the same. The trick in this one is the bums and the whole world around it. If we start matching up people with severe injuries and mental illnesses, would that be funny as well? And is that comparable to say, pro boxing? It isn't comparable and it never will be, even if they say they want to fight.

The pro fighters are good, they are professional athletes, they train like professional people and it's their life and they can fight. Anytime you start accepting 'well they agreed to fight', it's never the same, because the whole point of it is that they're bums and the whole scene and it's supposed to be funny. No one watches it because they want to see the fight of the century. They watch it to see bums brawling and that's comedy to some.

[soydaykam]

I wasn't aware that geting into physical fights was part of being a construction worker.

[cheapphenonline]

Pekka - yes I agree.

But the definition of abuse is a bit murky.

If a bum is hired to go beat someone up, is that abuse?

If someone gave a bum 10 dollars for a shoe shine, or in exchange for cleaning a car, would that have not been abuse?
I mean, no one regulated it, and a car wash could cost much more.


Also, why is it that work relating to sex or violence is much more easily considered abuse?

Why is it ok to say "that woman is abused on her job because of her good looks" while no one ever says "that woman is abused on her job because of her good chemistry skills"?

Even though the chemistry job might get lower pay, more risks, and longer hours?!

[famosetroie]

Whatever the morality of Bumfights I totally agree with the guys point that Dr Phil and his ilk are no better.

[Pjayjukr]

Originally posted by reds4ever
Whatever the morality of Bumfights I totally agree with the guys point that Dr Phil and his ilk are no better. I agree.

I can't stand Dr. Phil. I love that the Bumfights guy dressed up as him.

[Tibaveriafark]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Taking advantage of the helpless
How is violent sports different?
How is ... construction work different?

Had the people been more well off, they wouldn't have worked in shitty jobs. Sports jobs generally have some governing authority and standard labor contract structure that provides some degree of worker protections, plus the statutory and regulatory protections in state and Federal law.

Construction work is far different - physically harder, but there is a lot of licensing and safety regulation.

Where's the line between it's ok for someone poor to work in a really shitty job, where he is hurt - to it is not ok for someone poor to work in a specific really shitty job.? There's a few special issues with something like bumfights, and with bumfights specifically.

First, dealing with "bums" is the capacity to consent - a lot of homeless are diagnosed mental patients with mild to fairly severe functional problems - they may be ok if they take their meds and receive regular care, or they may still be impaired. Off their meds (really common with BPD patients), or with their meds interacting with recreational meds, then it's a different question. How much work do you think the bumfights ******* put into making sure these people really had the legal capacity to consent to the agreements they signed?

Anything that's filmed gets into a lot of legal gray areas. The motion picture industry has a lot of exceptions in coverage in state and Federal labor laws, due to the complexity (in real production) of filming on multiple sites in multiple jurisdiction, and non-standard safety issues. Although bumfightsesque productions don't really have those legitimate issues, they can hide behind a claim of being in the motion picture production business to try to avoid a lot of regulatory obligations.

Unions solve a lot of those problems, by creating contractual obligations rather than the lesser degree of state or Federal regulation, but most "indpendendent" digital video production is non-union.

Do the "actors" really understand what it means when they're signing contracts and releases that they have independent contractor status? Do they understant all the liability waivers? Gee, funny how worker's compensation and state disability insurance get left out of that picture, etc.

[jacknates]

I think bumfights exploits the bum for their lack of economic stability and mental sanity. The same way that someone not in their right mind can not enter into a legal binding contract, these bums cannot either. If a crack dealer makes some chick whore herself out for crack he is still a crack dealer.

The guys who make the videos are stupid entrepenuers...

[Fhgzmftq]

It doesn't fully exist for children, the mentally challenged, and other groups in our society.

Jon Miller

[BgpOoGI2]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
It doesn't fully exist for children, the mentally challenged, and other groups in our society. So we let them have booze and wander the street, and suddenly this guy is the enemy?

[QwOpHGyZ]

easy cover for undercover cops performing a drug sting?

[Preegovesem]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


More than you. QFT

[EspnaConCam]

Elok, should people in such a position be given no opportunities, or just opportunities of which you approve? Refusing puts them no worse off than they were before the opportunity was presented, so I fail to see how they're in no position to refuse.

[Michmant]

Originally posted by Solomwi
Elok, should people in such a position be given no opportunities, or just opportunities of which you approve? Refusing puts them no worse off than they were before the opportunity was presented, so I fail to see how they're in no position to refuse. Ah, so it's "giving them an opportunity?" The guy should get a medal for his humanitarian concern.

So if you pay a trivial amount to a homeless bipolar-diagnosed individual who's off his meds at the time he signs the consent, and then he's injured and requires ongoing medical treatment (at taxpayer expense, or simply not given) afterward, while you make millions off the marketing of this sort of bullshit, how exactly is that "giving" them an "opportunity?"