[lLianneForbess]

at the workers.

[rhybrisee]

Why? Engineers aren't experienced factory workers.
I'll tell you what was happening. The workers were dragging their feet to get overtime. I'd bet you.

[SarkisPioute]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Why? Engineers aren't experienced factory workers.
I'll tell you what was happening. The workers were dragging their feet to get overtime. I'd bet you. No doubt the workers weren't doing all they could.

[XqrkN4a0]

Defense contracts can't be sent over seas. The Federal government requires most of defense manufacturing to be domestic to North America so if there is a war and shipping lanes are cut the nation can still manufacture its own military equipment.

[ebonytipchik]

Originally posted by Verto
Part of that is to be expected if they are using engineers now. You got to be kidding me. I have yet to meet an engineer that can build the things they design.

In fact, from an operational standpoint, I've yet to see a design that works exactly as an engineer specified.

ACK!

[perhilzit]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
What dorks. Go on strike, and let it be seen how you were jacking around, not giving enough effort while working.
Read this.
can I get a link?

[masteryxisman]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I doubt engineers would be [inherently] more efficient as factory workers, and would expect them to be less. Unless and mind you I have nothing to justify this comment with, just saying, if someone told Raytheon if they keep "X" amount of supply up to a certain mandated level, then Raytheon could be closed and no one would be eligible to work on a government project again.


I know if a defense department contractor gets booted off a federal construction job they may be reviewed and then subsequently denied access to wotk abaord a federal project.

Gramps

[gagagaridze]

Um, Raytheon is something like the fifth largest defense contractor in the world. The federal government isn't just going to say "not doing business with you anymore."

[StanWatts]

Originally posted by Tuberski


You got to be kidding me. I have yet to meet an engineer that can build the things they design.

In fact, from an operational standpoint, I've yet to see a design that works exactly as an engineer specified.

ACK! Exactly the point. Thanks.

[v74ClzKY]

The unabridged version of the same article, from a local paper.

Raytheon starts replacing strikers

10:54 AM MST on Saturday, January 6, 2007

By The Arizona Daily Star

Raytheon Missile Systems has started replacing factory workers who are on strike.

The company will decide later whether these new workers will cost strikers their jobs, said Raytheon spokeswoman Sara Hammond. A union spokesman called the hires "an insult to existing employees."

In the two months since union workers rejected a new labor contract, production has risen above pre-strike levels and some projects are ahead of schedule, Hammond said. But the company can't keep using its engineers as factory workers forever.

The positions the company is hiring for are assembly workers, starting at $13.48 an hour, and custodians, starting at $10 an hour, she said. Hammond wouldn't say how many the company expects to hire, but Raytheon has received dozens of résumés following advertisements in newspapers and on the company Web site.

The company sees the new hires as a way to "move on" from the 62-day stalemate, Hammond said.

Representatives of the International Association of Machinists and Raytheon have separate meetings scheduled with a federal mediator on Friday.

"We continue to respect our employees' rights to strike, and we know there are many willing to do so indefinitely, but we hope they respect our obligation to meet our customer needs and move on," Hammond said.

International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Local 933's directing business representative, Bobby Martinez, called Raytheon's announcement a strategic ploy.

"This is a company tactic to pressure our members into accepting their offer," he said. Around 90 percent of the union members voted to reject the offer in November because "it's a below-industry-standards offer and there are some uncertainties in the language of the contract," Martinez said.

Strikers have said their main concerns are the rising cost of health insurance and minimal raises for the highest-paid employees covered by the contract.

Hammond said, "As long as the strike goes on, we have to think about how we're going to meet our customer commitments." She said the company is "just starting to explore the options," which could include moving some factory work to other Raytheon facilities that don't have unions.

Raytheon Missile Systems, a division of Raytheon Co., has three other factory facilities. Workers at its Kentucky factory are represented by a union, but workers at its New Mexico and Arkansas sites are not. Raythe-on employs about 11,000 people overall in Tucson and is Southern Arizona's biggest private employer.

Hammond said production at the local factory is better than it was before the strike began Nov. 5.

"The work force is performing exceptionally well," she said. No delivery deadlines have been missed and some projects are ahead of schedule, she said.

In a lot of cases, the engineers who designed the missiles now are on the factory floor building them, and they have improved productivity as they have found better ways to get things done, Hammond said.

"We're not only completing work that had been started, but we're starting new work," she said.

On Friday, Raytheon and union officials are to meet with a federal strike mediator in separate appointments. Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service commissioner Pete Cinquemani said he contacted both sides "to explore different options to get the strike settled."

"We hope that (the mediator) will shed some light on what the issues are that could bring this to some resolution," Hammond said.

In a prepared statement, Martinez said, "We look forward to a chance for open dialogue on the issues that forced us into this strike. We would never turn down an opportunity to reach an end to this current situation. Hopefully, Raytheon will come to the meeting with the same spirit of cooperation and resolve."

Neither the company nor the union has asked the other side for a negotiation meeting.

[mArVHDO6]

You know, I am 47 and had some terrible jobs and some great jobs but most were just ok jobs. But they paid the bills.

I was reading these and wondering if the strikers are looking at the "TOTAL PACKAGE" as in wages, insurance,vacation, ect. versus a simplied hourly rate.

I love the above "Strikers" standpoint from the union site, if its all legit, when they sated "We had no choice"

Enough is enough; we didn’t want to be on strike, but we had no choice. We can’t accept a contract with so many concessions while Raytheon gloats about their profits

They did not "HAVE" to strike. they should look at what other big industries in Kentucky had happen, Ford they ended up closing many North American factories and sending jobs elsewhere.

I never understod about this group mentality. Are they being paid b y someone while out of work?

Just how far ahead are they

Now I know, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

But then again so does the Boss and woe to them if they were to lose their jobs, just how many 7-11 clerks or mcdonalds fry cooks on thrid shift get paid what they do?

Gramps

[Smittoh]

They are defense industry workers, their jobs won't fly off to another country.

[newshep]

Originally posted by axi
They are defense industry workers, their jobs won't fly off to another country. How about another area of our country?

Just asking many places are looking jobs and just say these guys are making 12.00 an hour that would look mighty good to someone who is making 8.50 an hour.

Just suggesting sometimes the greasy wheel doesnt get the grease it gets the shaft, broken, not stirred and the wheel is cast aside.

Gramps

[RobertLS]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
If the Raytheon spokesperson is to be believed. Since government contractors are notorious liars, why should we believe them? My Evil Big Defense Contractor pays for all my healthcare and Dental, throws in the same that I do with the 401k, pays for further schooling, and offers company sotck at 15% discount to employees.

And that's entry-level.

Speaking to come of the other contractors around here, their pay-o-la is similar, so I say to you: Boo-****ing-who



And Unions that strike during wartime should be shot.

[cokLoolioli]

The union where I worked told their membership straight out, benefits add about 20% to their pay.
I'd say that's right.

[njfeedd3w]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll


Now thats why I enjoy Lonestar, not simply for his love of Cats although it has a BIG PLUS fer that but because he understands and see's the big picture.

Gramps And we ain't unionized. Of course, I'm not sure If my particular field would call for that...

I will say the Janitors here at the P'gon are, and when we had New Years Weekend they didn't clean up on Friday, and didn't come in on Tuesday(day of mourning) while all the contractors and "essential personnel" did. We took our own trash down the dumpster we got in trouble for it.

[addyta.org]

Originally posted by Lonestar


My Evil Big Defense Contractor pays for all my healthcare and Dental, throws in the same that I do with the 401k, pays for further schooling, and offers company sotck at 15% discount to employees.

And that's entry-level.

...and which contractor would this be?

[/recent grad]

[BgpOoGI2]

Sure, as if that narrows it down.

[Flatlytaize]

It seems like everyone is greedy. No suprise there. To offset the stupidity being laughed at on the part of the workers so far in this thread... consider:

http://www.fox11az.com/news/topstori....537b7cfc.html
To prove the proposed contract is a good deal for its hourly workers, Raytheon has put a "Pay and Benefits Calculator" on its Web site to help workers figure how the proposal would affect their wallets. By entering a few key pieces of information, such as hourly wages and the type of benefit plan used, the calculator shows the worker his or her gross earnings minus health care premiums during the next three years.

The formula doesn't compare year-over-year raises, showing cumulative earnings instead. And it doesn't account for taxes, overtime pay, 401(k) contributions and proposed pay-scale adjustments. It also doesn't include the rising cost of living, including the costs of doctor's visit co-payments and prescription drugs that would go up in the contract.

No one appears to lose money, using the formula. "It doesn't account for [much of anything]"

Good proof there Raytheon!