[BitStillrhile]

One of the Byzantine emperors did a treaty with Catholics in 1400s at Florence. So Catholics came on Mount Athos to a Monastery, Zographou I think to serve with monks there. While the celebration continued in front of the Emperor the Church crashed over the people there killing many. Out of these killed, their bodies are not corrupted until today and their hair and nails grow up and their aspect is not nice.
Second time Emperor tried to force orthodox monks serve with Catholics and second time the Church crushed and was destroyed.
This is why Orthodox Monks are maybe afraid of serving with Catholics.
However this is a Romanian language movie speaking about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs5gIJpv1Bs

Around 100 years from Florence Treaty Byzantine Empire fell under the Haggareans.

I would love to see Catholic Church coming to the right belief, the one that God knows to be true.

I do have a question, why the Vatican Treasury is under the control of Rothschild family, that is not a christian family?
Look on google for: "Rothschild vatican treasury"
If Orthodox Church will unite with Rome, under pope, will this NON CHRISTIAN FAMILY manage all Christian money?
Can this family through controlling money and keeping catholic Church hostage to stop union between Catholics and Orthodox?
Rotschild said, give me country money and I don't care who does the laws. Can Rotschild through controlling Vatican money, to push Vatican in adopting errors like Filioloque aka can Rotschild push the Church whose money is controlling to error?

Can catholics respond to this? How much influence have Rothschild on Catholic money?

I did read another article about Zougraphou monastery and looks like the bodies of these dead when Catholic came are there and nails and hair continue growing.

We need to pray for the liberty of Catholic Church and hope that this Church will come home to Orthodoxy.

[proslaviy]

Looks like spiritual restoration/debacle can foretell restoration/debacle in nations.
After treaty of Florence Byzantine Empire resisted for almost 100 years. Today after what I perceive a similar error at Vatican, Vatican II Germany is residing on immigration and 40 some years after Vatican II more than 60% of babies in Germany are foreign. Europe is getting close to debacle and this may be a fruit of Vatican II.

Few know what Vatican II means. So what Vatican II may mean?
It may mean that while we see priests in Catholic Church like before Catholic Church may have moved to the road of Becoming an OLD LAW organization.

What changed with Vatican II?
With Vatican II the main celebration, Holy Liturgy took steps from transforming itself from a sacrifice to a meal. Many consecration prayers that were to transform Bread and Wine into Holy Communion were took out, Altars were replaced by Tables . More than that the New Mass was developed with the Help of Protestant Pastors and I think they don't have sacrifice on Sunday but a meal in remembrance. So Catholics may be close to changing Holy Communion for eternal life with a meal for remembrance.

Other bad things happening. Like layiti being permitted to put his hands on Body of God. Dancing, guitars and such. Cannot help but compare this with the direction of going to the End Time Church, I think Catholics are not there but God knows, the Church Prophecised by Saint John:
"The Holy and Righteous John of Kronstadt recalled this vision which he had in January of 1901:

After evening prayers I laid down to rest a little in my dimly lit cell since I was fatigued. Hanging before the icon of the Mother of God was my lit lampada. Not more than a half hour had passed when I heard soft rustle. Someone touched my left shoulder, and in tender voice said to me, 'Arise servant of God John and follow the will of God!'

I arose and saw near the window glorious starets (elder) with frosty grey hair, wearing a black mantia, and holding staff in his hand. He looked at me tenderly, and I could scarcely keep from falling because of my great fear. My hands and feet trembled, and I wanted to speak, but my tongue would not obey me. The starets made the sign of the cross over me, and calm and joy soon came over me. Then I made the sign of the cross myself. He then pointed to the western wall of my cell with his staff in order that I should notice certain spot. The starets had inscribed on the wall the following numbers: 1913, 1914, 1917, 1922, 1924, and 1934.

Suddenly the wall vanished, and I walked with the starets toward a green field and saw a mass of crosses-thousands standing as gravemarkers. They were wooden, clay, or gold. I asked the starets, 'What are these crosses for' He softly answered, "These crosses are for those who suffered and were murdered for their faith in Christ and for the Word of God and have become martyrs!"

And so we continued to walk. Suddenly I saw an entire river of blood and asked the starets, 'What is the meaning of this blood? How much has been spilled?' The starets looked around and replied, This is the blood of true Christians!' The starets then pointed to some clouds, and I saw mass of burning white lamps. They began to fall to the ground one after another by the tens and by the hundreds. During their descent they grew dim and turned to ashes. The starets then said to me, 'Look!' I saw on a cloud seven burning lamps. I asked, 'What is the meaning of the burning lamps which fell to the ground' He said, Those are the churches of God which have fallen into heresy, but these seven lamps on the clouds are the seven Catholic and Apostolic Churches which will remain until the end of the world!'

The starets then pointed high into the air and I saw and heard angels singing, 'Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord of Sabbaoth!' Then a large crowd of people with candles in their hands rushed by with joy on their shining faces. They were archbishops, monks, nuns, groups of laymen, young adults, and even children and babies. I asked the wonderworking starets, 'What is the meaning of these people' He responded, These are all the people who suffered for the Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church, for the holy icons at the hands of the wicked destroyers.' I then asked the great starets if I could sit down next to them. The starets said, 'It is too early for you to suffer, so joining them would not be blessed by God!'

Again I saw a large group of infants who had suffered for Christ under Herod and had received crowns from the Heavenly King. We walked further and went into large church. I wanted to make the sign of the cross, but the starets said, 'It is not necessary to cross yourself because this is a place of abomination and desolation!' The church was very gloomy. On the altar was a star and a Gospel book with stars. Candles made of tar were burning and crackling like firewood. The chalice was standing there covered by strong stench. There was prosphora with stars. A priest stood before the altar with face like pitch and woman was under the altar covered in red with a star on her lips and she screamed and laughed th roughout the church saying, 'I am free!' I thought Oh, Lord, how awful! The people, like madmen, began to run around the altar, scream, whistle, and clap their hands. Then they began to sing lecherous songs. Suddenly lightning flashed, frightening thunderbolt resounded, the earth trembled, and the church collapsed, sending the woman, the people, the priest, and the rest into the abyss. I thought Oh Lord, how awful, save us!

The starets saw what had happened as did I. I asked, 'Father, tell me, what is the meaning of this frightening church?' He responded, These are the earthly people, heretics who have abandoned the Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church and recognized the newly innovated church which God has not blessed. In this church they do not fast, do not attend services, and do not receive Holy Communion!' I was frightened and said, The Lord has pity on us, but curses those with death!' The starets interrupted me and said, 'Do not mourn, but just pray!' Then I saw a throng of people, each of whom had a star on his lips and was. terribly exhausted from thirst, walking here and there. They saw us and yelled loudly, 'Holy Fathers, pray for us. It is very hard for us because we ourselves cannot. Our Fathers and Mothers did not teach us the Law of God. 'We do not even have the name of Christ, and we have received no peace. We rejected the Holy Spirit and the sign of the cross!' They began to cry.

I followed after the starets. 'Look!' he said pointing with his hand. I saw a mountain of human corpses stained in blood. I was very frightened, and I asked the starets, 'What is the meaning of these dead bodies?' He replied, These are people who lived the monastic life, were rejected by the Antichrist, and did not receive his seal. They suffered for their faith in Christ and the Apostolic Church and received martyrs crowns dying for Christ. Pray for these servants of God!'

Without warning the starets turned to the north and pointed with his hand. I saw an imperial palace, around which dogs were running. Wild beasts and scorpions were roaring and charging and baring their teeth. And I saw the Tsar sitting on a throne. His face was pale and masculine. He was reciting the Jesus Prayer. Suddenly he fell like a dead man. His crown fell. The wild beasts, dogs, and scorpions trampled on the anointed Sovereign. I was frightened and cried bitterly. The starets took me by my right shoulder. I saw a figure shrouded in white - it was Nicholas II. On his head was a wreath of green leaves, and his face was white and somewhat bloodied. He wore a gold cross around his neck and was quietly whispering a prayer. And then he said to me with tears, 'Pray for me, Fr. John. Tell all Orthodox Christians that I, the Tsar-martyr, died manfully for my faith in Christ and the Orthodox Church. Tell the Holy Fathers that they should serve a Panachida for me, a sinner, but there will be no grave for me!'

Soon everything became hidden in the fog. I cried bitterly praying for the Tsar-martyr. My hands and feet trembled from fear. The starets said, :Look! Then I saw a throng of people scattered about the land who had died from starvation while others were eating grass and vegetation. Dogs were devouring the bodies of the dead, and the stench was terrible. I thought, Oh Lord, these people had no faith. From their lips they expelled blasphemy, and for this they received God's anger.

I also saw an entire mountain of books and among the books worms were crawling emitting ? terrible stench. I asked the starets, 'What was the meaning of these books?' ?? said, These books are the Godlessness and blasphemy which will infect all Christians with heretical teachings!' Then the starets touched his staff to some of the books, and they ignit ed into flames. The wind scattered the ashes. Further on, I saw a church around which was a large pile of prayer intentions for the departed. I bent over and wanted to read them, but the starets said, These prayer requests for the dead have been lying here for many years, and the priests have forgotten about them. They are never going to read them, but the dead will ask someone to pray for them!' I asked, 'Who, will they get to pray for them?' The starets answered: 'The Angels will pray for them!'

We proceeded further, and the starets quickened the pace so that I could hardly keep up with him. 'Look!' he said. I saw a large crowd of people being persecuted by demons who were beating them with stakes, pitchforks, and hooks. I asked the starets, 'What is the meaning of these people?' He answered, These are the ones who renounced their faith and left the Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church and accepted the new innovative church. This group represents priests, monks, nuns, and laymen who renounced their vows or marriage, and engaged in drinking and all sorts of blasphemy and slander. All of these have terrible faces and a terrible stench comes from their mouths. The demons beat them, driving them into the terrible abyss, from where hell fire comes forth. ' I was terribly frightened. I made the sign of the cross while praying, Lord deliver us from such a fate! "

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.c..._altarmess.jpg
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.c...cense_mess.jpg



CAtholic Church should be carefull in stopping moving to that direction so catholics will not lose their Church altogether.

[CreativeAcrobate]

Prophecies in catholic Church against the movement of Church through Vatican II: http://www.tldm.org/directives/directives.htm

[mirex]

This is a prophecy from a Catholic Web site foretelling destruction of Catholic Church:
http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp
"267 Benedict XVI (2005-) 111 Gloria olivæ
The Benedictine order traditionally said this Pope would come from their order, since a branch of the Benedictine order is called the Olivetans. St Benedict is said to have prophesied that before the end of the world, a member of his order would be Pope and would triumphantly lead the Church in its fight against evil. While the Holy Father chose the name "Benedict", this does not seem enough to fulfil the prophecy. Nor is it clear how Benedict XVI (a Bavarian) is "Glory of the Olives". Since he is said to have remarked in the Conclave after saying he would take the name Benedict that it was partly to honour Benedict XV, a pope of peace and reconciliation, perhaps Benedict XVI will be a peacemaker in the Church or in the World, and thus carry the olive branch.
In persecutione extrema S.R.E. sedebit Petrus Romanus, qui pascet oves in multis tribulationibus: quibus transactis civitas septicollis diruetur, & Judex tremêdus judicabit populum suum. Finis.
(In extreme persecution, the seat of the Holy Roman Church will be occupied by Peter the Roman, who will feed the sheep through many tribulations, at the term of which the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the formidable Judge will judge his people. The End.)"

[Tusethede]

I did hear that orthodox Churches did to be resanctified with Bishop if people holding wrong beliefs like protestands and even maybe Catholics served there.

[AlexBolduin]

I did read a prophecy saying that breaking Catholic Church is not a solutions since fractions will be easily overcome.

[Alliopeti]

This thread seems to have turning into a "bash the Roman Catholic Church" arena. That is not within the purpose of Monachos and therefore, in order to prevent it from going further, this thread will be closed at this time.

Fr David Moser