[Rapiddude]

I have mix feeling towards this event. It is sad that this keeps happening but it is also outrageous. Like many DR1ers and people who have heard this ask myself how do they get the money? $2,000 is alot of money in a 3rd world country. Some of you keep asking what do they do when they get here, why do they risk going back to the States & PR after being deported, that simple, there drug dealers, transporters, thieves, etc. If you're from the NYC area you probably have heard about the stolen luxury car ring, ALL involved are Dominican. I am amazed when I met Dominicans that are involved in drugs, I have met so many that I truly who ever in a 100 yrs think they are involved in that. That’s why US has to beef up security, all these boat trips can be stopped by both DR and US governments. If both governments in a co-joint operation would do a full blockade of the Mona Passage & other areas, only letting commercial ships pass through any unidentified vessel would be stop, also they should buy airships (blimps) the best surveillance available. Illegal immigration should be stopped & I don’t really have much sympathy for this way of searching for a better life, I mean poor is poor in every country. I hope Dominicans learn that the DR is not that bad and the US is not paved of gold. It very hard to describe how I feel, abit of everything sadness & rage but one thing I really dislike is when the persons family is shown on TV, crying like hyenas, I just think to myself why didn't you stop them & say my son/daughter, brother/sister don't go it is dangerous you’re life is worth more.

My motto is Fortune favours the Bold but what these people do is not bold it's stupid.

Good Day,
Capo

More on the Dominican Theft ring: http://www.nydailynews.com/11-18-200...p-217328c.html

[DagoIgnog]

Hillbilly is right.

The sad thing is the lack of so-called authorities in this country. Not only that, in most cases, I have no doubt, they not only look the other way in exchange for money but might even encourage most of this stuff.

Again, the gullibility of these ignorant people that could well set up a little business with that money and stay where they belong, is the biggest sadness.

[sportsbettinge]

Yan-Yan,

I agree with your comments as well, however, if some people as you state have made the trip several times at that ridiculous price where are they getting the money each time to cross? Even if they live for a while in PR, I would like to know how they are making money that quickly. I have been to PR and stayed there long enough to understand that life is not easy for most who have "good" jobs much less the average skilled person. PR is expensive. As well, you know that Dominicans in PR have their own barrio and those who have settled there illegally are not the most skilled Dominicans so they must be earning the bare minimum. It’s a combination of factors that lead people to take the chance and it’s a vicious cycle. Some people manage to overcome poverty in third world countries but the percentage is small. However, these drastic measures make one reflect. The myth of the “American dream” is it worth it? Someone has to enlighten these people that there’s a better way out.

-Lesley D

I do agree with what you say... But I've met so many Dominicans that have been deported 3 and 4 times from PR and are still trying to go back! They've made the trip "safely" many times... They know many people who've also made it and now live way better in PR and come back showing off their gold chains and pretending to be living the American Dream (which of course, they are not!).

I just think that the inability to go out and see what the rest of the world offers is just making Dominicans more obsessed with trying to leave, thinking that life is better anywhere else.

Some of you might not be able to understand this, but the chances are slim in the DR for a person that can't read or write, has never had an education and has been forced to work from childhood, to help support the family... How can you make a living shining shoes or cleaning windshields in a street corner?... There is really little hope for these people and they choose to take the risk as they feel the end will be the same if they stay.

I do not agree with them taking these drastic measures, but I can understand their circumstances and I feel for them, as they'll never understand that it's not worth it... Many people have made up their minds and no matter how many more boats sink, they'll try it as well.

[Darlmtgq]

Thanks Tordok for an exceptional post.

muy agradecido,
- Tordok

[Ifroham4]

Thanks Tordok for an exceptional post.

[feannigvogten]

This is the Hipolito Legacy and it's consequences.
By the way I have a lot of fins and snorkels, very cheap...

[kenowinnumberss]

That was the most insensitive comment I have ever read on this site. (and I have read some pretty ugly stuff on here)

I don't know what it is like to be a Dominican that can ever get ahead. But I can only imagine that it is a constant nagging and longing for a better life as shown (and imagined) on television. Why should they not have what others have and dont fully appreciate (yourself included)? If they were in Mexico, they might walked over which is alot safer.

I think you should edit your comment for rest of the DR1'ers. It was thoughtless and mean. period.

I think you take your trappings for granted and have failed to count your blessings.
TEHAMA

[andreas]

Last week two guys left Mazanillo on a tiny boat to Florida. I have known these guys for several years. They were both making anywhere between RD$ 25,000 to RD$35,000 per month, working only two or three days a week! They were crane and forklift operators at the port. I know this for fact because I sign the checks.

Having lived in the DR for the last eleven years and having seen what I have seen, I don’t consider a person desperate if he/she is capable of raising USD $2,000 or so to pay for a trip to “Dream Land”.

These people have a dream and they are willing to die for it. Their dream is to work less and earn a bundle. As normal a human nature as that maybe, it’s idiotic to risk a life to achieve such a pittance of an objective.

Some have lost their lives crossing the ocean in a desperate quest for freedom. Others lose their lives leaving freedom behind on a mission for GOLD CHAINS. I don’t feel sorry for the later.

I don't blame the economy or the government for the actions these people have taken. As bad as things are, It is a free country where one could work and live, with apportunities for advancement. Not always easy, but doable.

If they choose to float, let them float.

[Cricequorie]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...0199478.htm?1c

Posted November 17, 2004

SANTO DOMINGO - A boat carrying illegal migrants to Puerto Rico capsized, killing at least eight people and leaving 15 missing, officials said Tuesday.

The Dominican navy rescued seven migrants at sea. Survivors said the small wooden boat carrying at least 30 people left late Monday from Puerto Plata, a town 140 miles north of the capital of Santo Domingo, said Navy Capt. Viviano Rodriguez.

Three bodies were recovered off the coast of Luperon, about 12 miles west of Puerto Plata, Rodriguez said. Helicopters spotted five other dead bodies floating in the area, but the surf was so rough that rescue boats couldn't reach them, Rodriguez said.

The seven people were hospitalized in stable condition. No ages or genders were immediately known.

The U.S. Coast Guard was still searching for another boat, which was reportedly carrying at least 40 Dominicans, said Lt. Eric Willis, a U.S. Coast Guard spokesman.

[Darlmtgq]

It is very saddening whenever something like this occurs. But HB is right in that these people cannot claim ignorance of the risks involved. There are people in worse economic conditions in the DR who choose not to plunge into the ocean at night in an overcrowded watercraft hoping to safely land at a destination several hundred nautical miles away in hostile territory.

In some quarters of mainstream Dominican society this kind of journey has become a socially-sanctioned ritual of parasuicidal behavior. It is not ultra-secret for someone to acknowledge their plans to close friends or relatives and to ask a compadre to look after his/her family "por lo que pueda pasar en el camino, así no lo quiera Dios". People KNOW that they: can be eaten alive by sharks, raped by sailors, left to float aimlessly on the open seas while starvation, dehydration and hypothermia do a slow death number on you, humilliated, incarcerated, robbed, cannibalized, deported.....

Rather than legally obtain a visa and safely traveling with commercial professionals (which takes a long time, costs money and requires luck) some feel that "their" only option is to illegally associate oneself with a bunch of criminals for transportation and /or documentation "services" (which costs lots of money and requires lots and lots of luck for mere survival...ah! but it is quick).

Is popular frustration truly so generalized and extreme that taking this kind of risk is somehow acceptable? ....They have seen "Nueba Yol". They have seen the TV reports. So why do they do it? Paradise is on the eye of the beholder and there is a mentality of "que sea lo que DIos quiera" that sometimes works and more oten it does not. Paradise has got to be on the eye of the beholder. And the beholder must be a gambler or else a truly desperate soul with suicidal tendencies. Some gamblers win (successful immigrant families that came to USA the harsh way) but most gamblers lose to the house (Mona Passage, INS, ghettoized existence side effects, and other unpredictable dangers with unfavorable outcomes). But both the successful and the failed ones at one point thought that they would win their gamble. No one goes into it thinking that they will perish. It is part of human nature to disregard the most lethal statistics when trying to apply them to ourselves. The fantasy is always that "even if everyone else fails/dies/loses I will succeed/survive/win.

Many of these are folks who stop playing lotería (lotto) and turn their lives into one. People take the risk because they reckon that they can beat the odds. It is the ultimate gamble of life and death. But they do not go in ignorance, since ... "En guerra anunciada no muere soldado" ....Some of us will call it dumb, I'm sure some others would call it heroic. Either way it remains an awful tragedy,

- Tordok
* BTW reaching your destination is in itself no guarantee of lifetime success. More commonly it becomes the continuation of a marginalized existence. A trade off from one non-spectacular but decent life in the semi-rural DR to a painful socioeconomic mediocrity and a life of danger and alienation in a large US town.

[Ifroham4]

And up here in Las Terrenas it seems like all the tourist dollars are going directly into the pockets of the Europeans - barely making it into the pockets of the Dominicans. You have to walk about 6 blocks down from the beach into town before you find a real Dominican own shop and those are all filled with cheap American free trade zone stuff. The Europeans sell the little pareos to the tourists for three or four times what the Domincans get. Feed them on the beach for five times what the Dominicans get. SURE -- THOUGH I KNOW -- true - The Europeans BUILT Las Terrenas, twenty years ago it was nothing. And that is a fact. And there is lots of work. But I do hope that some really savy Dominicans get up here to the Samana and start buying some land and doing some buiness before this becomes another outpost of the European Union and there is no one up here looking out for the right of the people.
Elizabeth

I agree with you but it is possible to do both - develop tourism using foreign know-how and develop the capacities of the next generation of Dominicans to take on similar initiatives. There is an initiative of this sort in Las Galeras that you may like to visit. PM me if you are interested.

(topic for another thread, I know).

[DagoIgnog]

And up here in Las Terrenas it seems like all the tourist dollars are going directly into the pockets of the Europeans - barely making it into the pockets of the Dominicans..... The Europeans BUILT Las Terrenas, twenty years ago it was nothing. And that is a fact.

You are contradicting yourself. Yes, Las Terrenas, Casa de Campo and Altos de Chavon, Punta Cana and most tourist areas have been developed by Europeans and Americans mostly.

Had you left it up to Dominicans, these places would be not much different than when Columbus was moving around these parts 500 years ago.

Dominicans are generally not into developing or investing in their country.

Most successful businesses established in the 20th century in the Dominican Republic were Spanish, Jewish, Arab and other immigrants.

That is the sad truth; and I am Dominican.

[Sleedyhex]

In today's news the families are paying RD7000 to recover a body but
according to the prosecutor, the organizer of the trip went to the US with RD$1.4 million in his pockets.

That's the guy they need to find!

Very sad.

[Impariclainna]

Really idiots!

Paying 40K pesos to go from DR to Miami in an open boat with one oputboard motor. Yeah right....

I'll will bet "Pesos to coconetes" that they were going to be dumped on some cay in the Bahamas and left to rot.

The only reason that the USCG and Dominican units got there was that a few of the people had cell phones and were making frantic 911 calls for help.

HB

It's sad...I just really cannot imagine being so desperate... They went in hopes to help their family...a lot of help they are now.

[kenowinnumberss]

[feannigvogten]

LOL

[kenowinnumberss]

I think we only hear of the ones who dont make it. Not to encourage this method of escape. But surely there must be some knowledge of a succesful journey to promote this type of transport. We just might not hear about it!

[DesautocaD]

I completely understand why they want to leave. But our country is not THAT bad. There are opportunities to do better there.
I guess it depends on what you see as good and how much you are willing to suffer. My mother has 9-yes 9, bro's and sis's. They grew up dirt poor in El Puente de Montecristi (AKA Las Penas). Today I have three aunts who are nurses, one of them a Supervisor and the other in Med school. One of my aunts is studying to be a teacher. They are very well off.
They may not have a brand new car and a 3Mill peso house, but they aren't starving. And yes they went though a lot of sh** to get to where they are.
Many Dominicans go back to DR from the states flashing their money, jewels , clothes, etc., so those living there think we are in heaven. FALSE!!
They will buy a 3Mill peso home and meanwhile they live in a small room here, wearing hand-me-downs, using public transportation. And there's more, but I'm not going to take up the whole board. I have live here forever and travel back and see it, and it makes me so mad.
Dominincans over there must understand that they should try. Life is not all that easy in the states.
There is a chance in DR, just have patience and keep trying!!

[Ifroham4]

Last week two guys left Mazanillo on a tiny boat to Florida. I have known these guys for several years. They were both making anywhere between RD$ 25,000 to RD$35,000 per month, working only two or three days a week! They were crane and forklift operators at the port. I know this for fact because I sign the checks.

Having lived in the DR for the last eleven years and having seen what I have seen, I don’t consider a person desperate if he/she is capable of raising USD $2,000 or so to pay for a trip to “Dream Land”.

These people have a dream and they are willing to die for it. Their dream is to work less and earn a bundle. As normal a human nature as that maybe, it’s idiotic to risk a life to achieve such a pittance of an objective.

Some have lost their lives crossing the ocean in a desperate quest for freedom. Others lose their lives leaving freedom behind on a mission for GOLD CHAINS. I don’t feel sorry for the later.

I don't blame the economy or the government for the actions these people have taken. As bad as things are, It is a free country where one could work and live, with apportunities for advancement. Not always easy, but doable.

If they choose to float, let them float.

It's not often that I commit the DR1 no-no of posting three times in a row, but it is not often that you see three posts in a row that are so worthy of comment.

In this case, my comment is - very well put, D.D. Do you know how the two men fared?

It is always good to see someone posting from direct experience as opposed to so many who base their arguments on assumptions and third-hand information.

[Glipseagrilia]

There are opportunities...I have seen them. Where? tell me, and I promise you half my wages, if I can make a decent living.

Mirador