[BUMbaronos]

I can see where you coming from, as the guy in the video didn't exactly walk towards the woman at a leisurely pace, so in that situation, I would probably have legged it without looking back.

And I guess I'm not too Paranoid around where I live since Violence in Broad daylight is quite rare, whereas Violence at night can be fairly prevalent!, Mainly young kids doped up with Alcohol trying to prove their manhood etc.

Also the chances of encountering anyone armed with a Gun is fairly remote too, and Knife attacks on People are quite rare too, it does happen, but not very often.

So with the chances of encountering an armed assailant or abductor quite low, I'm not too bothered about people stepping out of cars or vans and even running towards me, I might take a second or so to weigh up the situation and if I thought I was going to be attacked I might leg it or stand my ground and see what occurs, depends where I am and how many people I'm facing, and what their body language is telling me.

[Arrecteve]

I can see where you coming from, as the guy in the video didn't exactly walk towards the woman at a leisurely pace, so in that situation, I would probably have legged it without looking back.

And I guess I'm not too Paranoid around where I live since Violence in Broad daylight is quite rare, whereas Violence at night can be fairly prevalent!, Mainly young kids doped up with Alcohol trying to prove their manhood etc.

Also the chances of encountering anyone armed with a Gun is fairly remote too, and Knife attacks on People are quite rare too, it does happen, but not very often.

So with the chances of encountering an armed assailant or abductor quite low, I'm not too bothered about people stepping out of cars or vans and even running towards me, I might take a second or so to weigh up the situation and if I thought I was going to be attacked I might leg it or stand my ground and see what occurs, depends where I am and how many people I'm facing, and what their body language is telling me.

But I thought you said the only reason someone would turn away would be because the person was family. Thank you for conceding the point there.

You also seem to have some confidence that you have nothing to worry about from someone unless they are armed (like a super hero?), do you think that this is necessarily true for all people? Are you going to insist a young woman should be without caution or fear from attackers unless the attacker has a gun or knife? The issue isn't necessarily if the guy is armed or not but that he might intend to do you some harm.

It's very nice of you to share how you would gauge if someone was a threat and under what circumstances you would decide to face them or run, but that is beside the point. The woman turning away from the man is not an indication that he was family or an indication he meant her no harm.[yes]

[BUMbaronos]

Well since the other women was behind the girl by only several feet, I'm assuming that the Abductee knew her and was walking away in a different direction, but when seeing the man, she realised what was going on and tried to make a run for it.

I think most people are quite capable of deciding whether someone intends to do them harm, by seeing how their acting etc, although its fair to say that serial killers in the USA like Ted Bundy have been well presented, Charismatic and seemed quite normal, because Females have willingly gone with him and to his aid, so I guess it can be difficult at times to really know what a person wants from you and by the time their that close to you, it might already be too late.

Its not often that a young women can defend herself so easily against an average adult male, and since carrying anything like a weapon is illegal in the UK, I recommended to both my wife and daughter that they carry in their handbag a large can of Hair Spray, It worked in "KickAss" and personally I find even walking through a cloud of the stuff after my wife sprays her hair is a nauseating experience that makes me cough and splutter, so pointblank range into the eyes and mouth would be very unpleasant indeed, and would give vital seconds for them to get away.

Also since its Legal and "to hand", unless your Wife/GF has a cavernous bag like my wife does (blackhole more like) then it couldn't be argued by the cops in a search that it was something you were intentionally carrying for self defence.

[Arrecteve]

Well since the other women was behind the girl by only several feet, I'm assuming that the Abductee knew her and was walking away in a different direction, but when seeing the man, she realised what was going on and tried to make a run for it.

And?

I think most people are quite capable of deciding whether someone intends to do them harm, by seeing how their acting etc, although its fair to say that serial killers in the USA like Ted Bundy have been well presented, Charismatic and seemed quite normal, because Females have willingly gone with him and to his aid, so I guess it can be difficult at times to really know what a person wants from you and by the time their that close to you, it might already be too late.

And?

Its not often that a young women can defend herself so easily against an average adult male, and since carrying anything like a weapon is illegal in the UK, I recommended to both my wife and daughter that they carry in their handbag a large can of Hair Spray, It worked in "KickAss" and personally I find even walking through a cloud of the stuff after my wife sprays her hair is a nauseating experience that makes me cough and splutter, so pointblank range into the eyes and mouth would be very unpleasant indeed, and would give vital seconds for them to get away.

Also since its Legal and "to hand", unless your Wife/GF has a cavernous bag like my wife does (blackhole more like) then it couldn't be argued by the cops in a search that it was something you were intentionally carrying for self defence.

I don't have a wife or girlfriend nor will I ever. I also don't see how your hairspray story is relevant. So, are you saying women have nothing to fear if they only have a can of hairspray? Since hairspray is legal no woman will be attacked? That a woman need not fear an attack if she has hairspray? That she should not be cautious? That it is safe to assume that if she turns away from someone approaching her they are just her family lawfully trying to get her in a vehicle because if that weren't the case she'd stand proud with her trusty hairspray? I am not sure at this point where you are taking this discussion. It's amusing and all, I am assuming that is the intent, but you started off calling anyone not scared to death of intervening a dreamer and now you are screaming on about how women can fend off abductors easily with hairspray. See the irony?

Or is that why it is movie style heroism to try and help a person in need? Because they probably have already decided the attacker is not a threat (which means they must be related to them AND mean them no harm) since the attacker isn't dying on the ground in a cloud of noxious hairspray fumes?

Seriously at this point just trying to understand.[yes]

[Psymoussy]

Anyone here ever left their computer and seen some real violence in person? If not, just know that there is no Wolverine-type guy running around and saving everyone, and if there were, it is probably not your pudgy ass!

[BUMbaronos]

And?



And?



I don't have a wife or girlfriend nor will I ever. I also don't see how your hairspray story is relevant. So, are you saying women have nothing to fear if they only have a can of hairspray? Since hairspray is legal no woman will be attacked? That a woman need not fear an attack if she has hairspray? That she should not be cautious? That it is safe to assume that if she turns away from someone approaching her they are just her family lawfully trying to get her in a vehicle because if that weren't the case she'd stand proud with her trusty hairspray? I am not sure at this point where you are taking this discussion. It's amusing and all, I am assuming that is the intent, but you started off calling anyone not scared to death of intervening a dreamer and now you are screaming on about how women can fend off abductors easily with hairspray. See the irony?

Or is that why it is movie style heroism to try and help a person in need? Because they probably have already decided the attacker is not a threat (which means they must be related to them AND mean them no harm) since the attacker isn't dying on the ground in a cloud of noxious hairspray fumes?

Seriously at this point just trying to understand.[yes]

Just because I said anyone who was a bystander who had the proposed intention of stepping in without a second thought was Dreaming, does not mean that I expect the person being confronted should just stand there and let themselves be abducted.

The Person being Abducted doesn't have a choice in the matter, whatever happens is going to end in confrontation, They run, they get chased, They stand their ground they get
Battered, abducted etc.

But the person outside of that, the Bystander does have a choice, They step in, they might get killed, Or they keep away and call the cops with a description etc and not get involved, then maybe they'll go home to their families that day etc.

From my understanding, I work in Security and have done for over 19 years, I've got quite good at reading peoples "body language" and to me, the women in the video turns away from the man because she recognises him and as he runs towards her, she starts to retreat faster too.

If he was a stranger and had stepped out of the van and started to walk towards her as he did, she would more than likely step back, and keep some distance between him and her, to keep him out of her "personal space" and in some respects his reach, But she does not back off, She literally turns away and changes her direction, which says to me that she knew him and thus the turning away was a sign that she was ignoring his presence.

Since we can't see the video from her side and see the man's face, Then we can only assume that his expression was not one that made her instantly feel threatened and decide that she should instantly run away, She only turns and walks away, the woman behind catches her and in the instant she has turned away from the man he has run towards her.

You can even she that the other woman is talking to the young girl if you look close enough, because her head is moving slightly up and down, probably agitated pleading etc,
After seeing the man, the young girl also seems to shrug her shoulders as a kind of mark of defeat, as if knowing she is not going to get away and that's why she just turns away and does not turn away and instantly run.

Its a shame we can't get a further angle to the left, because it would be interesting to know where the other woman started to follow the girl.

Did she appear from behind a parked car ?
Or was she walking behind the girl from much further up the car park ?

As for the hair spray comments, I was just commenting on how a young women in that situation could defend herself, obviously in the USA carrying hairspray is probably useless since it seems so easy to just carry something a lot more lethal or effective, i.e Gun, Knife, Mace, Pepperspray or a Stun Gun (dependant on the state laws etc.).

[JeremyIV]

From my growing what the hell is wrong with people file.

This video is disgusting. Why didn't anybody do anything!? At least yell and call the cops!

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-staffo...,1187842.story

[esenesesinas]

From my growing what the hell is wrong with people file.

This video is disgusting. Why didn't anybody do anything!? At least yell and call the cops!

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-staffo...,1187842.story

Most people would be reluctant to step in or even shout, as you have no idea if the individuals are armed. Its shocking yes - but the best action would be to call the police, not yell or try and step in.

[HawksBurnDown]

The girl looked like she was struggling but not that excessive force was used. Intervention maybe?

[BUMbaronos]

better to die trying than to do nothing and let an innocent suffer at the hands of an abductor.

So that 14 yr old daughter, Are you her sole provider ? Or is there a wife/GF somewhere too.

Personally, I might say something or shout out, but I wouldn't wade in on a whim, only a fool does that, but if you don't care about your personal safety or your wife/daughter being alone then go ahead!

From the looks of that, though, it was either a stray family member being taken against their will, a team of Bounty Hunters getting an Absconder, or in the worst event, An unwilling Participant in a Sex orgy!

Hopefully it'll turn out ok, and they'll not be sharing some shallow grave with some other poor abductee.

[EjPWyPm4]

Most people would be reluctant to step in or even shout, as you have no idea if the individuals are armed. Its shocking yes - but the best action would be to call the police, not yell or try and step in.

The best action is to try to help if you are capable.

[esenesesinas]

The best action is to try to help if you are capable.

Not sure that the police would agree with you there.

In an unknown situation where an individual does not have sufficent information in order to be able to accurately assess risk, its best not to get directly involved.
Its very very easy to say on the internet that you would wade in to such a situation, and much harder to do in practice.

I'm not saying that you should never get involved, but rather than if you are going to, you must be certain that you are not unduly risking your own safety, or that of those around you. What if you involvement resulted in the offenders shooting innocent bystanders?

[JeremyIV]

For the don't intervene people: would taking down the license plate be too much?

[BUMbaronos]

For the don't intervene people: would taking down the license plate be too much?

That's the least a person could do!

Maybe not being as Brave as JoseyWales to Step in unless I was armed, I would have at least pulled out my phone and given a running description into the record mode, which I have on a shortcut, licence plate, description of vehicle and abductors and the person abducted, basically everything I could remember or see then phone the cops and tell them where and when and where their likely route was taking them, which direction etc.

Done the same thing a few years ago witnessing a Bank robbery and because of the slight things I noted, they caught all 5 guys within the space of an hour, because the forces helicopter was 5 minutes away.

Had I been armed though, it would be an entirely different situation, although as Chris mentioned collateral damage must be thought of when confronting possibly armed aggressors.

But you could of at least shoot a tyre out, or stick a few shots through the front radiator, if the bullets could penetrate the grill etc, Would slow them down, although then they might hijack another vehicle and involve other innocent bystanders.

[Kokomoxcvcv]

"Witnesses told authorities that a black male, with the assistance of two additional black females abducted a young adult/teenage black female from the front parking area of the TARGET Store." Oops! The editor forgot to also write "black witnesses." [thumbdown]

[Fgunehjf]

Not sure that the police would agree with you there.

The police aren't always right.


If more people would stand up and do something about stuff like this instead of leaving it for someone else,society would be much better off.

"but they could have weapons!"

They could just as likely just run off when confronted by a half dozen angry citizens who aren't about to let some girl be abducted and murdered.

In situations like this the second the person being abducted's enters the vehicle their probability of survival drops astronomically low.

So by standing around and doing nothing you all but guarantee that persons death,whether you call the police or not.

Standing around and waiting for the police to handle it may be safer (for you),but it is certainly not safer for the victim,it's a death sentence.

And imo,it's cowardly.

[Fgunehjf]

Oops! The editor forgot to also write "black witnesses." [thumbdown]

So you don't think identifying the race of the people involved is relevant?

So what,they should just say "some people abducted the girl" and leave it with no details so you can be "racially senstitive"?

[JeremyIV]

Amber alert canceled: Seems it was the girls family dragging her off for a move she did not want to make. (Rough Family!)

Still does not validate people just standing around, since they had no way to know that!

[rowneigerie]

The police aren't always right.


If more people would stand up and do something about stuff like this instead of leaving it for someone else,society would be much better off.

"but they could have weapons!"

They could just as likely just run off when confronted by a half dozen angry citizens who aren't about to let some girl be abducted and murdered.

In situations like this the second the person being abducted's enters the vehicle their probability of survival drops astronomically low.

So by standing around and doing nothing you all but guarantee that persons death,whether you call the police or not.

Standing around and waiting for the police to handle it may be safer (for you),but it is certainly not safer for the victim,it's a death sentence.

And imo,it's cowardly.

It's not "cowardly", it's the sensible thing to do. Unless you've been trained to deal with such situations wading in when you have no idea what weapons they might be carrying or if any accomplices might appear would be very unwise. The police have very good reasons for discouraging have-a-go-heroes. First you could make things worse, and second you could get injured or even killed yourself, which would help no one.

[Gaxiciverfere]

First you could make things worse, and second you could get injured or even killed yourself, which would help no one.

Or in this case, felt foolish when it was not an abduction at all.