[Jannet.K]

You said hourly was the best way to charge!

Ah ok sorry I have a hang over. That's just how I've always done it. I mean without saying up front I'm charging you $60 an hour 'cause that scares some people. I make a nice proposal in InDesign with like what I'm going to be doing it how long it will take then x$60 an hour and then total up everything.

So like

"Site Layout Comp - 3 hours - @$60 an hour = $180

Slicing 1 hour - x$60 = $60

Flash - 10 hours - x$60 = $600

Coding - 500 hours - x$60 = $30000

Total = $30840

Those are all total bogus numbers obviously

[Anneskobsen]

Unfortunately you're right ...

My neighbour is a professional website maker aswell, made a very nice flash site for some huge Diamond company. She handed out some screenies etc. They hired some Chinese company to recreate it for a quarter of the price and blew her off.

She started a lawsuite though, and won it (which is REALLY hard in the Netherlands, TRUST ME)

The only way to make sure this won't happen is to just let em come over to look at the result. If they're pleased they pay up, you put the site online. Don't hand them anything in digital format before you've got ur money.

Well, she was clearly right because what they did was simply a theft. You cannot take someone else's creative work and not pay for it. It's what copyright is all about.

Now, how to insure things like that don't happen:

Watermark all your work!

Add a very obstructive text like "PROPERTY OF FIRSTNAME LASTNAME" all over the image, leaving just enough visibility to see what the product itself is about. If it's audio stuff, add voiceovers or bleeps every 15 seconds. If it's a video, add the same "PROPERTY OF FIRSTNAME LASTNAME" in a very obstructive place.

[PyncGyncliacy]

My billable rate at work is around $70-100/ hour for varying tasks and clients. Your rate will probably be lower, because you are a one man show with little experience. But, you are still doing a job.

Here's a standard thing. Agree to an hourly rate, which will come into play in the future. What you are going to do is bill them a lump sum, with an agreed upon amount of work for an agreed upon amount of hours. Then have them pay half of the agreed upon lump sum up front. This will guarantee that they are willing to pay. They can pay the rest after the job is done. This way, if you get stiffed partially into the project, at least you get something for your time.

What I do for freelance jobs is to figure out how much they are paying me for design, if I am hosting the site, providing site maintenance and support, and then I tell them the hourly rate is for changes beyond the initial scope of the project.

What you will probably learn is that small clients think they are your only client, and may tend to want more, and want it faster than is reasonable. That's why you want to specify an hourly rate for when they decide to add something, you can say well, that will add 8 or 16 hours to the project.

I hope that helps. I have two ways I approach side projects. I overcharge people, because I don't have that much free time, or, I do it completely for free. For close friends and family, I do things for free because that way they can't bitch at me if they aren't happy. But, I am a nice guy and do over-commit myself sometimes. I have a good, steady day job as a Design Manager at a creative firm, so, I don't really need to go looking for work outside of that. Besides, we get paid lots of money to do it. Lots.

[gundorana]

Could the folks posting up their rates give some indication of experience and qualifications? I mean heck, I can make websites, but have been working as a C# programmer for the past 3 years with a degree, essentially full time for a single client and get a much lower hourly rate than most suggest here.

[PyncGyncliacy]

Could the folks posting up their rates give some indication of experience and qualifications? I mean heck, I can make websites, but have been working as a C# programmer for the past 3 years with a degree, essentially full time for a single client and get a much lower hourly rate than most suggest here.

Well, theres a difference in quality, scope, and the range of a project too. I tend to work more with a brand than just with a website. My strategy is an entirely encompassing solution. I do branding, identity, corporate collateral, retail and corporate environment design and also video and motion work.

I am one of those artsy fartsy creatives. I would avoid doing sites for cheaper clients, because I want to deliver a branded solution, rather than just a cut and paste generic solution. So, that's probably why the billable rate differs from person to person.

Anyway, I have been doing web design since around 1995. I have been doing graphic design since around 1992. But, saying you are a graphic designer is like saying you are a dancer. There is all kinds. Some of us are strippers, and some of us are kabuki or ballet. Both Kinkos and I can design you a brochure. Kinkos will be cheaper. But, that doesn't mean they are equal.

I am not saying anyone is above anyone else here. Just that some people serve different clients and audiences.

I remember hearing that your billable rate is related to how much you think you should make in a year. $25 would be for ~$25,000/ year. I don't know who told me that, or why. I don't even know if it makes sense. But, you can figure your billable rate by deciding how much you want to make in a year, how many billable hours are possible in a year and then that will tell you. When you decide your rate, you also decide what kind of clients you want.

I try to avoid cheaper clients because they want more than clients who spend more. Cheap clients think they are your only client.

[Jannet.K]

Do you have a site? I'd like to see some of your work just out of curiosity...

[gundorana]

I remember hearing that your billable rate is related to how much you think you should make in a year. $25 would be for ~$25,000/ year. I don't know who told me that, or why. I don't even know if it makes sense. But, you can figure your billable rate by deciding how much you want to make in a year, how many billable hours are possible in a year and then that will tell you. When you decide your rate, you also decide what kind of clients you want.

That's a good point actually, a per-hour rate isn't necessarily how much you get per hour of "work", but how much you get per hour that you can actually bill for. Chasing clients, quoting, proposing designs, all of these sort of things can net you $0 can't they? Is this what you find anyway? That you'll often have to "work" for practically nothing so you can secure the work that does pay?

[PyncGyncliacy]

I am actually working on a new one.... the problem is doing lots of client work, and no time for myself.

[Jannet.K]

I am actually working on a new one.... the problem is doing lots of client work, and no time for myself.

Well if you ever need some help with those clients [thumbup] [thumbup] Shoot me a message on AIM, I can show you some work I've done or what not.

AIM = jadoyle86

[scewDeasp]

lol some of those rates are insane, you guys are ripping people off! [rofl]

[lopezsokero]

I charge 98€ an hour for some graphics designing work. Still a lot cheaper for the customers than them going to a designing company...[yes]

[StanWatts]

what about a website with CMS, maintaining the server and stuff?
ask to build a website of interior designers to sell and review their wares.
what should be the charge of buliding such a website and the charge for keeping the website online for 5 years?

what reliable professional level webhosting do i have since the web need to be sited in US which i won't want to be at.


no need for design work, since the designers already have a look and texture they want.
[surrender]

[sterofthemasteool]

ok guys.. thx for the feedback..

I actually posted a screenshot of a site I'm working on at the moment in one of my previous posts, so check that out if you were the one who asked me to show something.

Also, since this client is a friend of my sister I seriously can't rip her off.. It's good to build up a portfolio anyway and later I could charge other people more. Right now I'm going for $800, which is nice for me anyway. Want to upgrade my computer and that's exactly the amount of money I need lol... (including my own)

[elektikaka]

lol some of those rates are insane, you guys are ripping people off! [rofl]

We would only be ripping people off if we were not completely transparent about our rates and project timescales, which we are. We may charge alot but we work our arses off for that cash and we have 6 years of experience. We tell them exactly what they are getting for their money and how long it will take, and that's a ****-hot website delivered on time and on budget that people will talk about, will stand out from their competitors and hopefully bring them business in.

Quite simply, you get what you pay for, and most of the time with web design if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

[elektikaka]

Could the folks posting up their rates give some indication of experience and qualifications? I mean heck, I can make websites, but have been working as a C# programmer for the past 3 years with a degree, essentially full time for a single client and get a much lower hourly rate than most suggest here.

I have a 1st class honours degree in Multimedia Technology, have around 7 years experience designing web interfaces. Other skills include actionscript, 3D animation, video post production, CSS, brand and indentity design and sound design.

Basically my partner and I can charge what we do because we can literally create anything you want, from flash games to video show reels to e-commerce sites to complete branding design etc etc.

These days people often want more than just a website, and you have to be prepared for that. The secret is to try and stand out from other companies and show that you can do something special.

[sterofthemasteool]

do you have examples for your websites?? lets see how hot it is.. lol

[gundorana]

Ta for the details Lazerbase. It's all well and good when people post up rates, but without some details it doesn't really give much of an indication.

[PyncGyncliacy]

If you think some of our rates are high, you should see what people applying to work as designers put as their salary requirements and some of their work. Some people demand $120/hr with like 3 years experience and make crappy websites using animated gif icons. Or other people might have 10 years experience and still be making the same sites they were 10 years ago.

One resume I read once said, "I am really good at art and basketball." No experience. Starting pay requested at around $90k/year.

[gundorana]

Presumably these people get totally shot down?

As I was trying to ask before as well, these "hourly rates" don't exactly reflect hours worked though do they? What with consultation times, jobs that fall through, quite spells, etc. etc.

[sterofthemasteool]

yeah lol... I noticed a lot of "proffesional" web design companies are a total fraud. They charge way too much and it looks like shiite in the end..