[lopezsokero]

perhaps he is thinking of the Focus RS which was around 200+BHP was it not? i think that handled quite badly... got beaten by an ST220 estate on a wet track

If you're referring to the TopGear Stig's laptimes, Focus RS beats the Mondeo by over 2 secs. And it doesn't handle badly, it just likes a smooth road.

[StevenS]

perhaps he is thinking of the Focus RS which was around 200+BHP was it not? i think that handled quite badly... got beaten by an ST220 estate on a wet track

Sounds interesting, got a link?

[Mmzmptvk]

Sounds interesting, got a link?

thought i'd get called on this... i have no source, my old man read an article in a car mag and he was well chuffed because he has the estate. i doubt he would make it up though.

just depends if you trust my old man i suppose!

[StevenS]

I too read an article where a bunch of cars were tested on a circuit. Two of them were a Focus RS and a silver Mondeo ST220 estate. Round the track the Mondeo was milliseconds quicker, its always funny to see the look on peoples faces when a ST220 is out pacing a 330i [thumbup]

[snislarne]

Sadly, some of the US market requirements screwed up the Monaro/GTO - for example the fuel tank position severely reduced the boot space and as for the styling "improvments", where's my barf bag[cursing]

The reason the GTO and now the Camaro were built on Australian designed platforms is because they are simply the best engineers, period! Pity about the US styling on the Camaro, though.

You should bear in mind that the engine is still US iron (or aluminum, rather).
Heck, if it wasn't for all the "it's not American' BS, people would still be wetting themselves over them - esp' if they got the 410hp versions.
I guess that y'all won't buy the new car (Pontiac G8?) based on the new Holden even if it's offered with the 420+hp engine - 5 seconds to 60 and around 170mph top end.
have a lookie here to see what may be on offer.
http://www.hsv.com.au/index_eseries.asp

Thats why I would get the Dodge Challenger instead! More American that those stupid Holden cars. No jking, that doesn't really matter to me.

Challenger looks WAY better then the Camaro and has 25 additional horses. So I hope that they both at least weigh in about the same and handle the same, so that the Challenger will win in all the tests.

I think that the G8 will sell pretty good for the type of buyers the current generations are, myself though I don't care for it much, but it seems like it is going to be one of the few if not the only powerful V8, RWD, Manual sedans in that price range, so it would be rather tempting if I was in the market for a Sedan.

[acceraStoof]

The GTO had its tank moved because it couldn't meet US Crash Safety standards in its traditional location. I don't know the particulars of how it failed, but that is the reason there is a fuel cell in the trunk.

[lapInsalm]

Thats why I would get the Dodge Challenger instead! More American that those stupid Holden cars. No jking, that doesn't really matter to me.

More american how? The charger/magnum/300/challenger are based on the previous generation MECEDES C class chassis.

[snislarne]

More american how? The charger/magnum/300/challenger are based on the previous generation MECEDES C class chassis.

I was just joking around, but with it being made in Canada which is America, just not the United States America compared to the GTO being made in Australia thus it being more American.

[Pheboasmabs]

Oh dear, talk about a little knowledge ...
Stop living in the past, people have to work with what they've got and I don't think he'll be sticking a Tornado in the front of that thing - that is the combo' you mean, isn't it - 455CID and front wheel drive?

To the OP, have you checked out options for increasing displacement, otherwise it'll come down to breathing for torque and rpm for power.

heyy i like the past lol. i like torque over hp and modern engines (at least the majority of them) do not deliver on that. but i was not referring to the tornado just the 455 block itself (have 2 of them a '73 and a '68).

and what is this "talk about a little knowledge" bit?

[encumeterz]

heyy i like the past lol. i like torque over hp and modern engines (at least the majority of them) do not deliver on that. but i was not referring to the tornado just the 455 block itself (have 2 of them a '73 and a '68).

and what is this "talk about a little knowledge" bit?

Yup, got to agree with you - so many modern engines are focussing on top end power but are a real pain at low rpm, a characteristic of four valve engines. The more traditional 2 valve engine will tend to have more low rpm torque and be much nicer to drive on a regular basis.

What I did have an issue with was the MOPAR 318 being referred to as "muscle", the 340 is their performance small block. "Floating valves" from a reduction in back pressure - negligible affect. Using a single pipe exhaust when the optimum would be a system for each bank. As for the suggestion of fitting a straight six, that's one heck of a brain fart, isn't it?

[Mmzmptvk]

Yup, got to agree with you - so many modern engines are focussing on top end power but are a real pain at low rpm, a characteristic of four valve engines. The more traditional 2 valve engine will tend to have more low rpm torque and be much nicer to drive on a regular basis.

What I did have an issue with was the MOPAR 318 being referred to as "muscle", the 340 is their performance small block. "Floating valves" from a reduction in back pressure - negligible affect. Using a single pipe exhaust when the optimum would be a system for each bank. As for the suggestion of fitting a straight six, that's one heck of a brain fart, isn't it?

well the ST220 has a dual exit system on it standard so i dont think it is a problem?

[Sotmoigma]

Along with exhaust you'll NEED to put on a cold-air intake (CPE and AEM are the best two brands).

[lopezsokero]

well the ST220 has a dual exit system on it standard so i dont think it is a problem?

AFAIK, it's just a cosmetic dual-exhaust. The manifolds still merge into one exhaust...

[Babposa]

That can go both ways. The thing is though, the GTO is Australia. Made in Australia and imported to America.

The sad thing too, is the Camaro is going to go the same route. Designed in Australia, built there and is going to be shipped here. Same thing for the new GTO which will be made in the same plants as the Camaro.

I think that it is a muscle car, but not a true muscle car. Plus it only started looking aggressive and muscleish when they added the scoops on the LS2 models.




I think that there could be some V6 muscle capable motors. It was only used in trucks (S-10/Blazer/S-15), but the 4.3L motor. Another thing about American muscle motors is that they are extremely customizable and can make sum serious power with just a few simple part swaps and can handle a bunch of psi stock. And this 4.3L does just that. Just was never used in a car application, but if it was I think that this motor could qualify for American Muscle.

You really are clueless. And believe me, if a Kiwi gives credit to Aussies you better beleive it as they don't often dish it out too us!

A pure American design built and mass produced car will never exist again given GM and Fords world setup.

As for Muscle cars, Australia has been leading the world in engineering fast cheap 4 door RWD family cars with a V8 up front since American's started buying FWD V8 crap.
As for the GTO, look to the Europeans to really make it extreme. That's what is great about the GM brand, it can use it's global divisions to make a truly world car Muscle car. Engine=US Engineering and built=Australia Modified=UK
Result=truly stupidly powerful big 4 seater http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UN6FxoQEPM

[encumeterz]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The FORDs are pretty damn good as well - just can't understand why they're not exported as well. Remember, even the old GTHO Phase IV was stopped by the government as it was too fast/powerful
BTW, 'Holdens' are also exported to the middle east, South Africa and probably a few other places.

[Babposa]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The FORDs are pretty damn good as well - just can't understand why they're not exported as well. Remember, even the old GTHO Phase IV was stopped by the government as it was too fast/powerful
BTW, 'Holdens' are also exported to the middle east, South Africa and probably a few other places.

Remember when Ford imported the Taurus? or did NZ miss out on that failure? I remember the plug was pulled so quickly that they where selling them at $8K off just to get rid of them.
Well here is one that is owned by a real tool http://forums.eurocca.net/showthread.php?t=21151

[encumeterz]

Remember when Ford imported the Taurus? or did NZ miss out on that failure? I remember the plug was pulled so quickly that they where selling them at $8K off just to get rid of them.
Well here is one that is owned by a real tool http://forums.eurocca.net/showthread.php?t=21151

I don't think they were sold here - I remember reading about them, though.
They were an AMERICAN designed and built vehicle, nuff said!
Did you guys get the Chrysler Neon?

BTW, I'm not really against all US designed iron, just the crappy ones - my first car waaaay back was a Chrysler Valiant with the 225 slant six and three on the tree, my second was a Mini and my third was a '61 Pontiac with a mild 350 and close ratio three on the tree.

[lapInsalm]

I don't think they were sold here - I remember reading about them, though.
They were an AMERICAN designed and built vehicle, nuff said!
Did you guys get the Chrysler Neon?

BTW, I'm not really against all US designed iron, just the crappy ones - my first car waaaay back was a Chrysler Valiant with the 225 slant six and three on the tree, my second was a Mini and my third was a '61 Pontiac with a mild 350 and close ratio three on the tree.

Someone swapped a 350 into the pontiac then? After doing a little search, it seems you guys down under got the rebaged chevrolets like the canadians instead of the standard pontiacs. Got any pictures?

[U2DnBGFE]

All your muscle cars are belong to us!


Granted, the engine still comes from the US, we tweak it. So what Red Dog is saying isn't exactly 100% correct. In fact if the Aussie made cars become really popular GM are talking about setting up production lines for the Aussie designed cars in the US so they don't have to import. I'm not sure which cars.

I'd like to see HSV have a crack at the US market. You guys think the Holden made cars (GTO) are alright then I'm sure HSV would impress some muscle car people over in the US.

[acceraStoof]

Had RWD cars not fallen out of favor then they'd still be as popular here as they were in the muscle car era.


As for the Taurus itself. Its a great car that did exactly as intended. It moved people from place to place reliably and cheaply. So in that form it is a success. Its not the most beautiful car, nor powerful. It works well.

Would I choose one to modify? Hell no, but as a daily driver its not bad.