[AnetTeilor]

Player A hits a tee shot that hooks badly into woods to the left of the tee box, entering woods about 200 yards from the tee. He declares a provisional ball and hits it solidly down the middle 270 yards. This is a very good shot for Player A.

Player A looks for his ball at the edge of the woods and about 3-4 yards in woods and does not find it and is about to declare it lost. A competitor, player B, more persistent, does find player A's ball deep in the woods in an unplayable lie behind a tree but not OB. Player B then tells player A 'here's your ball'.

Player A declares his ball unplayable, since there is no way he's getting that ball out of the woods in less than 3-4 strokes and says he'll take option of hitting from previous spot +1 stroke, and since the provisional ball was hit from previous spot then he'll precede to play on with his provisional lying 3.

Not so fast, says player B. Provisional is only in play if ball is LOST. Player B says- I found it, so your first shot is no longer lost. If you want to take unplayable and hit from previous spot rather than drop at 1 club length (which would leave player A deep in the woods and unlikely to get back to fairway in less than 3 strokes) then Player A has to go back to the tee and hit again... with likely not as good a result.

Player A says, um... no. That's why I hit the provisional. Don't be a weenie.
Player B says, provisional is null and void once I found your damn first ball.

So questions:

1) Is player B right?
2) If answer to #1 is 'yes' then does that mean that looking for your first tee ball in an area where you won't have an escape out a bad idea?
3) If #1 is yes, then does that mean you REALLY want to find a competitors ball deep in the woods, and look extra hard for it, if his provisional was really good?

[Numbiydq]

I say Player B is right. But in a friendly game, use the provisional as the third shot and be hitting four. Especially if the course is busy.

[AngelinaLip]

Player B is correct. I'm pretty sure once you find your first ball you MUST play it.

[nitivearchit]

Did player A really call player B a weenie? That alone's worth two strokes

[AnetTeilor]

Did player A really call player B a weenie? That alone's worth two strokes

It's semi-hypothetical, and banter is embellished for the readers enjoyment.

[nitivearchit]

It's semi-hypothetical, and banter is embellished for the readers enjoyment.

I figured that MM. Just teasing for your enjoyment.

[illignocearia]

Player A hits a tee shot that hooks badly into woods to the left of the tee box, entering woods about 200 yards from the tee. He declares a provisional ball and hits it solidly down the middle 270 yards. This is a very good shot for Player A.

Player A looks for his ball at the edge of the woods and about 3-4 yards in woods and does not find it and is about to declare it lost. A competitor, player B, more persistent, does find player A's ball deep in the woods in an unplayable lie behind a tree but not OB. Player B then tells player A 'here's your ball'.

Player A declares his ball unplayable, since there is no way he's getting that ball out of the woods in less than 3-4 strokes and says he'll take option of hitting from previous spot +1 stroke, and since the provisional ball was hit from previous spot then he'll precede to play on with his provisional lying 3.

Not so fast, says player B. Provisional is only in play if ball is LOST. Player B says- I found it, so your first shot is no longer lost. If you want to take unplayable and hit from previous spot rather than drop at 1 club length (which would leave player A deep in the woods and unlikely to get back to fairway in less than 3 strokes) then Player A has to go back to the tee and hit again... with likely not as good a result.

Player A says, um... no. That's why I hit the provisional. Don't be a weenie.
Player B says, provisional is null and void once I found your damn first ball.

So questions:

1) Is player B right?
2) If answer to #1 is 'yes' then does that mean that looking for your first tee ball in an area where you won't have an escape out a bad idea?
3) If #1 is yes, then does that mean you REALLY want to find a competitors ball deep in the woods, and look extra hard for it, if his provisional was really good?

As usual, there are unanswered questions here. How long after "A" started to search did "B" find the ball? This is critical to giving a correct answer. If the search was less than 5 minutes, then B is correct and A must abandon the provisional ball and play another ball from the tee if that is the option chosen under Rule 28. A player cannot "declare" a ball to be lost. It can only be lost if the player has done something to cause it to be deemed lost under a rule.

If more than 5 minutes passed between the time that A started to search and the time the B found A's ball, then it doesn't matter that the original ball was found. The second that the 5 minutes elapsed, the provisional ball became the ball in play and the original was, by definition, lost (see definition of lost ball).

If B found the ball within the allotted 5 minutes, then the answer to #1 is yes.

The answer to #2 is it's up to you. If you make that decision, then you had better play another stroke with your provisional ball before your turkey of a fellow competitor finds your original ball. You are still lying 3, even if it is a great shot, but if that looks like the best option then go straight to the ball and make your next stroke. Then if your fellow competitor finds the original ball, you can thank him saving you the money and put it back in your bag for future use.

For #3 the answer is No, not if you actually want to keep any friends to play with. Most reasonable competitors will abandon a search in such a case if the player calls it off.

The rules do not require a player to search for his ball, but they do require certain procedures to be followed if the ball is found before he has done something to cause another ball to become the ball in play. See the definitions in the Rules of Golf for ball in play and lost ball.

[moredasers]

Things I have learned so far:

1) Mike can't remember names so he calls his friends A and B
2) Duey would actually use the word weenie.
3) I am not playing with fourputt cause he knows the rules too well.

[nitivearchit]

Things I have learned so far:

1) Mike can't remember names so he calls his friends A and B
2) Duey would actually use the word weenie.
3) I am not playing with fourputt cause he knows the rules too well.

The rules are your friend and I prefer the word weener!

[RobertLS]

Player B is correct. I'm pretty sure once you find your first ball you MUST play it.

Is this a true statement ? I thought you always had the choice of taking an unplayable. Unless you mean by play make your choices from the found ball.

Not calling you out, I just would like the clarification for my own knowledge.


BTW, I love rule discussions and I'm amazed by the number of golfers that spout out rules that are not even close to correct but say it with such conviction.

[illignocearia]

Is this a true statement ? I thought you always had the choice of taking an unplayable. Unless you mean by play make your choices from the found ball.

Not calling you out, I just would like the clarification for my own knowledge.


BTW, I love rule discussions and I'm amazed by the number of golfers that spout out rules that are not even close to correct but say it with such conviction.

The player can deem his ball unplayable anywhere on the golf course except in a water hazard. The point here is not the implementation of Rule 28, but the abandonment of the provisional ball. Certainly if the original ball is found he can still deem it unplayable, but he still must abandon the provisional ball no matter what option he chooses to follow.

[KojlinMakolvin]

Fourputt is spot on here.If the original ball is found within 5 minutes of the search then this ball is still in play.It can either be played as it lies or the player can proceed under rule 28.

[angeldimmon]

I'm going with this answer! But since player #2 found player #1's ball, then it should still be playable!

Fourputt is spot on here.If the original ball is found within 5 minutes of the search then this ball is still in play.It can either be played as it lies or the player can proceed under rule 28.

[illignocearia]

I'm going with this answer! But since player #2 found player #1's ball, then it should still be playable!

A little lesson in golf terminology. A ball can be in play, yet still be unplayable. In this case that is what happened.

The ball in play was found before Player A did anything to cause it to be deemed lost, so it remained the ball in play. However, because of it's location deep in the woods, he was forced to deem it unplayable and proceed under one of the options described in Rule 28. In this case option a is apparently the only practicable way to go.

Here is the primary definition for ball in play:

Ball in Play

A ball is "in play" as soon as the player has made a stroke on the teeing ground. It remains in play until it is holed, except when it is lost, out of bounds or lifted, or another ball has been substituted, whether or not the substitution is permitted; a ball so substituted becomes the ball in play.

[MrGunjMan_]

Just because a ball enters the woods does not mean you can play a provisional either. I play on a couple of courses that have areas of woods marked as hazards. This can get messy when playing with a rules lawyer and/or if you don't know the course.

The best way I know to learn the Rules of Golf is to read a Decisions book. It has all the rules and is full of Q&A like this with the official answers.

In the end the rulebook is your friend and the better you know them the better off you'll be especially if you ever wager on the course.

[illignocearia]

Just because a ball enters the woods does not mean you can play a provisional either. I play on a couple of courses that have areas of woods marked as hazards. This can get messy when playing with a rules lawyer and/or if you don't know the course.

The best way I know to learn the Rules of Golf is to read a Decisions book. It has all the rules and is full of Q&A like this with the official answers.

In the end the rulebook is your friend and the better you know them the better off you'll be especially if you ever wager on the course.

Actually, in the case of an unfamiliar course, you won't get in Dutch for playing a provisional ball and subsequently discovering that there is no possible place for the ball to be lost but in a water hazard. If you play the provisional ball with the honest possibility or expectation that ball could be lost outside of a hazard, there is no penalty if you then find that you were wrong in your assumption. You simply pickup the provisional ball and continue play with the original ball under Rule 26-1.

If you were already aware that the ball could only be in a hazard and played a provisional ball anyway, then the provisional ball became the ball in play as soon as you made a stroke at it if on the tee, or if dropped, as soon as it was dropped.