[Opislossy]

Hi Bob

I am new here but not new to ATkins (see my thread in Intros). A typical day on induction for me would be:

Breakfast: steak or bacon with eggs or mushrooms or asparagus (6 spears) and a teaspoon or two of hollandaise. (An alternate on days when I do not feel very hungry is a home made protein shake with an egg. Note this is not strictly allowed on Induction but some days I just can't eat early.)
Lunch: some protein (chicken/beef/salmon) with a salad - comprising about 6 vegies from lettuce, green beans, snowpeas, celery, carrot (1/2 a small one), mixed sprouts, artichoke hearts. Once into owl I would add beetroot in there and an occasional slice of pineapple (fresh or tinned in juice not syrup).
Dinner: some protein (as above and add lamb/game) stir fry comprising a selection from onion, mushroom, celery, zucchini, beans, snowpeas, 1/2 small carrot, artichoke hearts (last 2 not if I had them at lunchtine though), hard boiled egg etc

Following this regime when I first did induction back in 2005 saw me drop from 131.5 to 120 in just 2 weeks. Of course it then slowed right down but it was am amazing experience!

__________________
Odille
F 57 / 170cms. SW 131.5 / Restart 121.2 / CW 121.2 / GW 70 - Atkins follower

[shemadagaswer]

Ok - thanks for the support, I’ll check out the links and make some changes and post back. I was under the impression that I was following induction and getting 4 carbs of so from cheese - so why even bother playing around with the other 15 carbs - just easier not to eat them. So, I will find out what I’m doing wrong and post back - thanks

[Junrlaeh]

Less is NOT always better.

Many people think Atkins is "all meat and fat". Read most newpaper or magazine reviews... unfortunately, they seldom actually do any RESEARCH before publishing those articles. :::sigh::: so the myths continue to be held as truths.

The truth of it is that Atkins is really a vegetable based diet. You are REQUIRED to eat the veggies. There's no choice there. You're also required to exercise. "Not negotiable" is what Dr. Atkins said about that. But do you ever hear about these things in reviews? No, never. Meat is also LIMITED... in case you think you can eat all you want of it. 4 to 6 oz per meal (3X a day). If you're a VERY tall man and VERY overweight you can have UP TO 8 oz per meal. That's raw weight. Did you know, also, that added fats has a suggested serving size of ONE TABLESPOON per meal? Yes, it's true. And there's a limit of 3 packets of artificial sweeteners per day. And... you can only have 2 to 3 TBS cream per day.

While you're at the Atkins site, be sure to read "How to do Induction right"... very important information.

[soprofaxel]

Bob -- I hope you are still reading this thread

I am/was in almost exactly the same place as you (except that I was, in fact, eating vegetables, like the program suggests). Similar starting weight, similar immediate loss, and similar "stall". I have several observations:

1. Listen to what Tril says. One thing I've learned on this forum is that she (and many others) gives us an incredible gift of her knowledge and experience. Her suggestions and explanations are "spot on" 100% of the time.

2. Stalls happen. This is covered in several threads. It takes patience and strict adherence to get through them. If you stray, as Tril says, you are not following the program and your efforts will probably fail. One thing that Tril stresses is that in the early stages, it is critical to count the carbs accurately (and get the proper amount of "net grams").

3. I found that 2L/64oz of water per day is not enough for me. Who knows, you might be similar...I find that I need to get about twice that, and when I started drinking that volume, I started losing again (at the moment, I am "sort of stalled" at about a 10% overall loss since I started on Aug 1).

4. 262 to 250, and then a stall. That's actually really good progress. Embrace it. Over on the progress forum, there is a guy named Rico who has been making fantastic progress. Then I compared my numbers with his, starting on Aug 1, and I find that I'm tracking about the same, to slightly better. I am feeling great about that.

5. When I needed inspiration, I re-read the original Atkins book, just like Blue, Tracy and Tril have suggested multiple times. I started to look inward at "what am I doing different than what is suggested?".

6. One of the factors, which I have also found to be critical, is that protein (and fat) is not unlimited. It is actually very carefully controlled. I typically do not go over 6 oz. at a meal.

7. "Eat until satisfied, not stuffed" is drawn directly from Atkins' book. It, too, is critical. If you want cravings to go away, don't overeat anything. Follow the program exactly.

8. Almost right away, I recognized that real cravings (which almost immediately disappeared for me) are different that psychological cravings. For me, those are easy to eliminate.

Another thing -- with 6 oz. of protein, and 5ng of green vegetables, I find that makes a pretty satisfying meal for me, with no lingering hunger. Until about the 4-hour mark. So I manage with extras/snacks, until the next meal. That might be water/tea, a few black olives (there are limits), a small piece of cheese, or celery. Eventually, I'll probably look for more alternatives. I get bored easily.

Guy

[Junrlaeh]

Thank you for the compliments, Guy!!!

I loved reading your observations. VERY insightful... and inspiring. And refreshing. I don't know... just really enjoyed them and the fact that you're paying such close attention to yourself!! It's crucial to understand your own body... what works and what doesn't. You're doing GREAT. And you gave awesome advice!

[soprofaxel]

Hi Tril -- I really wasn't trying to fish! I just wanted to corroborate.

So I thought of a story, from about eight years ago. I was kinda/sorta low-carbing (based on faulty memory of Atkins) and stalled after the initial drop. My primary care doctor, an old guy who didn't believe in low-carbing, referred me to a nutritionist.

The nutritionist swore up and down I wasn't eating enough carbs (I was estimating about 60 a day, without a careful eye on hidden carbs) and she made me swear that I would up it to 60g per meal, along with two 30g snacks a day. She didn't talk about net grams, and I don't remember thinking about net grams in particular.

Within 6 months, I had gained 35lbs, and I hovered there for several years trying to make 60g per meal work. I dropped to 2400 kcal a day, then 2000, then 1800, still no dice.

I never returned to the nutritionist (why bother if they are married to the USDA food pyramid?) and eventually replaced my primary care doctor. The new primary care doctor hasn't said anything other than "try 1500" and "you need to eat more vegetables...try broccoli...and no fruit except apples." What he didn't know is that I already had been eating broccoli and no fruit but apples.

I have come to the conclusion that I get really hungry and cranky on only 1500 kcals a day, and that I really have only been successful at losing weight on Atkins. So in the back of my mind, I knew I'd have to go back to it someday, and that it would be for life.

I decided not to do the "I'll just wait until..." game. I decided one morning that I would eat two eggs, and start from there. Found the website, found this site, bought the new book (hmmm, something about it seems odd to me) and then dug out my old book, which was buried in a box. I liked that carb cravings disappeared immediately for me. Food volume was down and I wasn't hungry.

I'm only 10lbs away from my original stall from 8 years ago. That will feel nice, and my induction goal is only 15 below that. That is a milestone (20% loss) that I am looking forward to. I'm even at a point where I don't care when it happens, I just know it will (if I stick to the program...for life!).

There are minefields to dance around...I did okay with a summer vacation that included a trip to a German restaurant and a brewery tour (carb heaven!), and then got through a barbecue competition weekend. Made it through the clear liquid fast . We don't go out to restaurants much, by choice, but I've never had problems with that. Met a friend that wanted to go to a Chinese restaurant for the buffet, and I found something (is miso soup okay? ate salad, miso soup and about 4oz of boneless ribs, probably glazed with sugar). Tomorrow will be a challenge -- group lunch at an Indian restaurant. Lots of carbs there.

Lots of those mines in the minefield probably helped contribute to the stalls at times, but it works itself out in the long run if you stick to the program.

Guy

[JessiPollo]

Hey Guy - yeah, what is up with those nutritionists ?? well, we all know what's up don't we

anyway....you are doing so well - you sound like your'e right where you need to be ....mind-wise...and food wise

i'm back to basics too - and hey bob? where are ya buddy? you there?? come on, you can do this brotha'!!!

tracy

[shemadagaswer]

Yes I’m here

Thanks for all the feedback, much appreciated. I’m just going to write some thoughts and more about me.
One observation, if I could east 6 oz meals - I wouldn’t need Atkins!

I’ve gotten my information from the book “Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution” January 2002. No were in there do I see eating measured meals. It specifically says “eat until you are full – but do not overeat.
I have not overeaten.
It says “you may east liberally the following foods (meat, eggs, fish…)

It does not say anywhere I could find “you must eat x amount of vegetables” it says you should eat “no more than 20 grams of carbs which should come from green leafy salad greens.

So, I’m kind of feeling limited
Eat 6 oz meals, eat vegetables (but not too much…) exercise more, eat less, yada, yada – we all know the drill. From reading the book – it does not seem that limiting.

I could be wrong after all I’m the one looking for advice, BUT it sounds more and more like typical diet advice.

Here is information about me

Until yesterday I really haven’t eaten any veggies. I thought I was staying in induction mode (strictly).

My exercise is as follows. I do high low aerobics 2x per week (mon & wed) (been doing that for about 6 years) I walk 1.5 miles a day -- 3 days a week, I bike 1-2 days for about 45 min and do yoga (thurs) 1 day per week. I kyak and am an expert skiier - which Im greatly looking forward to this season

I'm sure I could always kick up the exercise but this is what works for me now. I don't think I could do much more without it becoming dreadful.

My cheese "may" be a little high but I don't think that much -- that it should cause a stall.
One thing for sure I wasn't eating any vegetables. So I made the coleslaw this morning (recipe below) and my wife made stir fry cabbage and tofu with shrimp for dinner. I plan to incorporate low carb veggies in m plan.

The coleslaw -- I make as follows ½ cabbage sliced thin. One red pepper sliced thin, salt and pepper, about ¼ cup olive oil -- mix. Add a splash of white vinegar -- mix. Add 2-3 tablespoons mayo and mix, it's simple and very tasty. I believe this should only be about 1 car per ¼ cup.

Overall -- I'm not really hungry -- don't have any cravings, don't overeat. My appetite is about 20-30% less than normal. And overall I feel very good; I'm just not losing weight. The scale is stuck at 250

Two things no one has mentioned is stress and water - both I hear can contribute to a stall.
We've been in the process of selling our house and although I won't openly admit it -- it is very stressful, fixing ours, looking at overpriced houses -discrepancies with my wife...
I've recently decided NOT to sell the house so we will be on hold for at least 6 months. Now... my job is at risk...

My plans -- watch the cheese, eat low carb veggies and increase my water, -- although I drink about 2 liters per day, I probably need to add one more liter. And, be aware of the stress -- since I decided not to sell -- hopefully that may diminish

One main consideration for advice. I like simple -- I don't like to count every little thing, I'd rather just not eat it, hence the approach to the vegetables. I'm definitely not a fussy eater -- I just want a simple diet of basic foods - easy to prepare with minimal counting. I know long term being aware of carbs (probably can only do that by counting) is important. I may have to get used to that


So that’s my newbie rant - I’m trying, one big bonus is I feel good and could continue this way... I’m not hungry, and don’t crave food nor do I feel like overeating. So... I think that’s a plus - If I could get the scale to move - Id be all set.

Thanks your patience
Bob

[soprofaxel]

Not 6oz meals, but 6oz of protein at meals!

And there is an exception for tall men, so you'd definitely fit that, at 6'2" (I'm 5'7", so I don't really fall into that class).

"Eat until satisfied, not full" to me is a code phrase of adjust my thinking. And yes, I did find that 6oz is plenty, when accompanied by about 5 net grams of carbohydrate from the approved list (for induction).

But like I said -- I think you're doing fine. If you get the vegetables in order, along with lots of water (maybe it was too buried in what I wrote, but I found that I'm dropping weight a lot better when I drink closer to 128oz per day), the "regularity problem" should work itself out, so to speak.

Officially, I think I stalled about 15 weeks. It was very encouraging for me to hear that Tril had gone through a stall just as long. It seems to be an ordinary thing. I double-checked to make sure I'm doing everything right.

Now, I think I need to go back and re-read your response. Lot of content in there.

(by the way -- I'm not an expert -- I'm just a short fat guy that started this about the same time that you did, and I've just recently been working through these same issues)

Guy

[soprofaxel]

Another thought -- the limitations on protein are on the website, and in the newest book, I think.

At first, when I was drinking about 2L of water a day, I didn't think I could possibly fit in more (or urinate more). But then a funny thing happened -- one day I had the sensation of outputting way more than I had input, and the next morning I had about a 5lb loss.

At that point, I started to up the water. Right now, drinking 4L is not a big deal.

If you're exercising that much, maybe you're losing so much in sweat that you need way more than 2L just to stay even. I don't really know -- as I said, I'm not an expert at this kind of thing.

[JessiPollo]

HEY BOB!!!

you are actually doing fabulously!!!

and - with all that exercise - you may have to actually EAT MORE!!! lots of people stall bc they jsut don't have enough food in them, and their body hits starvation mode...and holds onto every little bit of fat to preserve itself.

and yup guy is right - it's 6oz of a protein-food, not 6oz meals - eat, boy, eat!!!

and yes, stress can def cause a stall, so you were bang on there - something about cortisol.....

your meals should look a little something like:

breakfst - 3 eggs fried in butter with your coleslaw perhaps? or some grilled tomato

lunch a heap of salad with chicken and mayo

snacks- chunk of cheese and some celery or celery with cream cheese MMMMM or maybe some jalapeno peppers stuffed with cream cheese, wrapped in bacon, and grilled (oh yeah baby!)

or peppers stuffed with cream cheese....

dinner meat and roasted brocc and cauli - roasted wtih a couple tbsp olive oil....or grilled grean beans with pumpkin...or your coleslaw...or whatever

so, no def not 6oz meals...and yes, we eat well!

take care, keep us posted on how upping the water goes.
tracy

[JessiPollo]

oh...and for a little info on me, which will be waaaay too much information...

i've jsut realized that even with all the veggies, i've been feleling my fibre is too low...so twice a day i take 10 grams of psyllium powder - which gives me 8 grams of fibre and no carbs - (i buy bags of psyllium husks from the groc store and grind it up with my nut-grinder so it[s not gritty) mix it with a big glass of water, 10 grams protein powder (i use musashi 92 vanilla - low low carb and tasty) and chug er down. i also drink heaps of extra water to make up for the psyllium...and my poos have never been more regular. yes, folks, sorry about the visual...but bob - there is hope! ylu too can have floating, happy poos, every day

and now i'm gonna stop talking.
tracy

[Junrlaeh]

OMG, Tracy... have you been into the wine? Or had too much sun? LOL

You crack me up.

Oops... no pun intended.

[JessiPollo]

I laughed out loud then..and i have a mouthful of pizza - luckily i didn't spray the screen

low carb, cheese-crust pizza, people; don't shoot me!

i am loving my poos these days...
oh, i said i'd stop talking, didn't i??

[soprofaxel]

MMMMM or maybe some jalapeno peppers stuffed with cream cheese, wrapped in bacon, and grilled (oh yeah baby!)

This would actually be one of my favorite food groups, a.k.a. ABTs (for "atomic buffalo turds")

I did a post over in the recipe forums a couple of weeks ago. Perfect low-carb snack, if you ask me.

(but I did include it in the daily carb and protein count, though)

Guy

[JessiPollo]

awesome!!!!!!!!!!

[Junrlaeh]

Pssst... Red.... is Guy trying to change the subject??

Oh wait... maybe he thought pooper/poppers. I can see how it might confuse him.

[JessiPollo]

bahhahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa

[JessiPollo]

*flush*

[soprofaxel]

I thought "atomic buffalo turd" kind of fit the tenor of the discussion.

Did someone say wine? I was just thinking yesterday that with all this red meat floating through my system, I wouldn't mind a half glass every now and then. But I'm still in induction

But as far as regularity goes, I'm a big fan of greens, and I made collard greens in a crockpot last weekend, with a ham bone I had in the freezer. Then there was some creamed spinach in their somewhere, maybe Wednesday.

Color me green .