[onelovemp]

Looking for open minded opinions.........Do you think that MORE people aggressive APBT's come from game bred lines or the weight pull size lines available.......just for an example........game bred lines we'll say Red Boy/Jocko ........Show weight pull Lines.........Razor Edge or Titan.......do you think one is more likely or does produce MORE people aggressive dogs than the other........IMHO I feel you have less incidents with game bred lines just my 2 cents for what its worth.........lol

[arerrurrY]

Looking for open minded opinions.........Do you think that MORE people aggressive APBT's come from game bred lines or the weight pull size lines available.......just for an example........game bred lines we'll say Red Boy/Jocko ........Show weight pull Lines.........Razor Edge or Titan.......do you think one is more likely or does produce MORE people aggressive dogs than the other........IMHO I feel you have less incidents with game bred lines just my 2 cents for what its worth.........lol

well the weight pull lines your talking about are ambully lines which are a totally different breed.a true apbt should never show aggression toward humans.

[Anneskobsen]

American Bulldogs have often been historically used as guarding dogs (among other things), so they are more prone to human aggression. APBTs should NOT be human aggressive. Unfortunately, American Bulldogs are very commonly mistaken for APBTs and are one of the breeds labeled as a "pit bull."

---------- Post added at 08:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ----------

Let me note - american bulldogs are very loyal to their owners but often wary with strangers.

[gusunsuth]

A bloodline is only as good as the people breeding them. HA dogs are coming from bad breeders, not any particular use or bloodline.

[doksSirmAdods]

A bloodline is only as good as the people breeding them. HA dogs are coming from bad breeders, not any particular use or bloodline.

Excellent post Galadriel!

[BadbarmrapBef]

A bloodline is only as good as the people breeding them. HA dogs are coming from bad breeders, not any particular use or bloodline.

That makes the most sense to me. I realize some breeds are inherently wary of strangers and have guarding instincts; but in my mind that means if you don't antagonize the dog (by attacking it's owner, or tresspassing without owner present on it's territory)...you should be just fine.

To me, when I hear HA; I think of an unstable dog that will bite in situations where your average dog of sound temperment would not do so; keeping in mind that I believe there are certain situations in which any dog will bite. I do ackowledge some dogs have a higher bite threshhold; but I personally believe every dog has a breaking point (jmho).

[Anneskobsen]

There's an excellent episode of It's Me or the Dog (UK version) that I saw yesterday. It's in season 3, I believe it was episode 3. The owners had an American Bulldog that was human agressive. It's a really great example of how to properly manage and rehabilitate (realistically and responsibly) an HA dog. The dog in question did have low thyroid which contributed partly to the issues, but not entirely.

Now, as stated many times here before, an HA APBT is an unstable one, and - if the dog is in good health - it should be put down.

[h0ldem]

I don't think its entirely correct to call a dog like that HA though... There were some pretty complex behavioral things going on there.

I think that to be truly HA (in any breed) something is miswired in the dog's genetics. Now in guardian breeds there is a distrust and willingness to take action against people percieved as threatening, but I don't think that is the kind of HA thats being talked about.

For an APBT to show HA is a severe enough fault that the dog should be comepletely removed from the gene pool. And odds are its just some byb product and not a dog from any specific lines. People who breed for money or people who think hey lets throw my crazy dog with your crazy dog and see how crazy the dogs we get are!

[Anneskobsen]

"Now in guardian breeds there is a distrust and willingness to take action against people percieved as threatening, but I don't think that is the kind of HA thats being talked about."

That seemed to be a large part of why the dog in that episode was HA - especially since that breed is often used as a guard dog. There were other issues in play though, which is what Victoria was working on with them.

[valiumcheepval]

Ahem... you can't "rehabilitate" a dog. They aren't addicts or druggies, come on now!

I'm in the group thinking that an HA dog is an unstable dog that doesn't respond like a sound dog would.

I have HEARD of some HA gamedogs... but I have NEVER heard of a bite/reported incident involving one.

ALL of the 'pit bull' attacks I have heard about involve large, Am Bully looking dogs that pretty much everyone would agree aren't even APBTs. The public doesn't even think true APBTs (think ADBA dogs) are even APBTs... they like to call them pit bull/greyhound mixes lol The public thinks pit bulls are large, bulky dogs... so any attack by a large, bulky dog is a pit bull attack.

[Maypeevophy]

people agressieve pits come from bad breeders and bad peole that could care lss about their dog what so ever i hardly believe a bad dog can come from a bad bloodline maybe bad dog agression but not from the bloodline its the breeder thats breeds therefore it is the breeder not the lines

[Anneskobsen]

Teal: on the show, it was clear that she meant "rehabilitate" the dog as in, helping it deal with its fears (it was clearly a fear-aggressive dog as well - you'd have to watch the whole episode) and learning how to relax and cope better. She didn't mean it in the sense that it would remove any of those issues permanently.

---------- Post added at 04:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 PM ----------

The public doesn't even think true APBTs (think ADBA dogs) are even APBTs... they like to call them pit bull/greyhound mixes lol The public thinks pit bulls are large, bulky dogs... so any attack by a large, bulky dog is a pit bull attack.

Yeah, a LOT of people will look at Bug and ask "are you sure she's a pit bull? she looks too small!" They ask it in a manner that's almost HOPING she's not really APBT, sadly.

And I get comments like "She's so small for a pitbull!" She weights 37 pounds at 12 months. That's pretty average if you ask me.

[Lilji]

Excellent post Galadriel!

I agree. APBTs should NEVER be human aggressive nor should any kind of bulldog.

[Maypeevophy]

I agree. APBTs should NEVER be human aggressive nor should any kind of bulldog.

I know thats right

[DoniandaCoado]

While unstable dogs can happen in any breed/line, especially if idiots are breeding for it! I must say that I see more unstable generic APBTs (aka 'pet bulls') and AmBullies and sadly I have seen a lot of them.

I am firm belief that stable dogs are born not raised therefor the only 'rehabilitation' for an unstable dog in my home is a dirt nap!

[valiumcheepval]

I am firm belief that stable dogs are born not raised therefor the only 'rehabilitation' for an unstable dog in my home is a dirt nap!

Exactly!

Dogs don't learn to "cope" with fear like a person would... it just doesn't work like that. A fear aggressive dog thinks it is going to DIE and that it is defending its LIFE... A fear aggressive dog is not living a happy life, and I have put to sleep a fear aggressive dog for HER sake because it broke my heart to see her so ... paranoid? I know it's a human term, but it works... she saw something life threatening in EVERYTHING, and felt she needed to fend for her life.

You can train. You can manage what you can't train. You can't make a dog do something that is outside the bounds of a canine's mind.

[Sydaycymn]

I also think they can come from gamebred lines but in the past they were planted much more commonly than today. ALL human-aggressive bulldogs, regardless of lines, strains, etc.. should be put down at once. We have too much to lose keeping them alive.

[AlexBolduin]

A bloodline is only as good as the people breeding them. HA dogs are coming from bad breeders, not any particular use or bloodline.

Yup.

And I want to touch on something that I see repeated a lot, and that is that guardian breeds are human aggressive (HA). Guardian breeds were not, are not, and should not ever be HA! There is a huge different in a dog understanding what is a threat and what is not a threat and in acting appropriately versus being outright HA. An HA dog makes a piss-poor guardian dog regardless of breed. Guardian breeds should be confidant and should be able to think through a situation and make a decision as to there is truly a threat or if there is not a threat, and even if there is a substantiated threat it doesn't mean that the dog's next step is to bite/attack. So let's quit repeated a myth that only hurts all those guardian breeds out there.

Personally, I believe the HA dogs came about when people got their hands on a genetic fluke that had an unstable temperament and instead of shooting it as should've been done, they bred it to another unstable dog. And IMO this all started when these dogs became popular as fashion accessories and people began wanting them for looks and did not really like/love the APBT for what it was, but rather wanted it to be a penis extension for themselves. I also believe that all this outcrossing to create bigger and more "badass" "pits"/"pit bulls" has also led to this increase in unstable dogs. When you start breeding mutts, it's a total crapshoot as to what you are going to get out of it. Especially when what you want out of it is an unstable dog that growls and attempts to bite, or does bite, anyone and everyone.

[Johnny]

ALL of the 'pit bull' attacks I have heard about involve large, Am Bully looking dogs that pretty much everyone would agree aren't even APBTs.

Where I live, that is completely wrong. You rarely ever see an Am Bully here, and when you do they are beautiful,friendly dogs.

Actually to be quite honest, most dogs here that attack aren't even pure. Not amstaff, ambully,apbt,or staffies. Most are dogs that look like a lab/bulldog that they call a "Pitbull" or a pitbull mix.


But back to the OP, I have had experience with game-bred dogs and "pet-bulls." The "pet-bulls" I would say to be more untrustworthy with people, not HA, but not trustworthy dogs.

I'm not saying all "pet-bulls" are like that, hell I own a "pet-bull" with game lines, and he isn't HA at all. But then again he has game lines. But I still personally think you will have more Human aggression in a non-game bred dog.

[valiumcheepval]

Where I live, that is completely wrong. You rarely ever see an Am Bully here, and when you do they are beautiful,friendly dogs.

Actually to be quite honest, most dogs here that attack aren't even pure. Not amstaff, ambully,apbt,or staffies. Most are dogs that look like a lab/bulldog that they call a "Pitbull" or a pitbull mix.

Interesting!

I am from California, where Am Bullies are the "in" thing... so it's logical that the MORE Am Bullies there are in one area, the greater the chance of an incident.

I wouldn't consider Am Bullies a purebred dog... to me, they are still a mix.

But, you said THE most important thing - probably 99% of "pit bull" attacks are by mixed breed dogs!