[Kneefrenolf]

based on recent threads i think it is pretty obvious that the same people who think requiring an ID to vote is a good idea would be up in arms about people being able to get a state id for free.

Note that for these laws to pass Constitutional muster, they must either provide a free ID or have a mechanism where people can certify that they cannot afford one (though, at least in Indiana's case, that certification cannot be made at the time of voting, you have to go to the clerk within 10 days of the election...).

[juyrett]

What about Rhode Island? Not really a GOP stronghold.

The post you replied to said "This is often a GOP tactic". Often != always. This piece discusses the RI law: Rhode Island's Voter ID Law: Oddity or Game Changer?

[doolarsva]

I wasn't aware that voter fraud was so prevalent, that we have to mandate official identification.

Take off your blinders then. I mean, isn't THIS enough to scare you???

Kansas received 221 reports of voter fraud between 1997 and 2010, according to a recent op-ed by Secretary of State Kris Kobach. 221!!! In 13 years!!!

Wait, let's think about this for a minute. Kansas, as of 2010, has 1.7 Million registered voters. 221/13 years = 17/year. 17/1,500,000 (I'll stipulate it probably hasn't been 1.7 million for forever so let's drop 200,000 voters for the 13 year span) is...oh.dear.god 0.001% of voters! THE HORROR, WHY IS THIS ONLY JUST NOW BEING ADDRESSED?!?!?

[Khurlxgq]

based on recent threads i think it is pretty obvious that the same people who think requiring an ID to vote is a good idea would be up in arms about people being able to get a state id for free.

Not so, at least not in Minnesota.

Jim Crow was brought up as an example of voter disenfranchisement efforts. On some level I guess this "brings in race", but it doesn't mean that the comment is automatically all about race. This is similar to people jumping to conclusions about criticism of Obama.

I don't presume to read minds and there is literally zero context in the WSJ piece, so I don't know if Clinton was implying anything and what that might have been.

I respect your statement, and agree completely. Although I do think that the GOP is accused of much worse while implying much less.

Bank accounts cost money. It's not the ID that's stopping most people without accounts.

They used to be free... you can thank Obama for that one.

[Hujkmlopes]

They used to be free... you can thank Obama for that one.

LOL.. ATM fees, check fees, minimum balances, direct-deposit-requirement.. these were all invented in 2009? LOL!!

[VastDrura]

I wonder how many poor people there are without their birth certificate.

Plenty.
They used to be free... you can thank Obama for that one. Oh really? So the banks themselves have nothing to do with you requiring MONEY to be in your account?

[HoniSoniproca]

I wonder how many poor people there are without their birth certificate.

I knowa ton of people (of all socioeconic statuses) who have had to replace their birth certificates because they lost the original. know what you have to have to get a copy of your birth certificate? Photo ID! oh, you also have to have a social security card. if you have lost that it also costs money to replace. and you need ID to replace the social security card. And i notice you didn't comment on the fact that in addition to the ID requirement to get an ID, a person also has to provide two different items to prove residency. Is it really hard for you to imagine that a poor person may not have a lease, mortgage, utility bill, W-2, or LCTF?

[markkisil]

LOL.. ATM fees, check fees, minimum balances, direct-deposit-requirement.. these were all invented in 2009? LOL!!

My bank had none of those fees or requirments prior.

Plenty.

I'm seriously curious. Are there any numbers out there for the amount of poor people without an ID?

Oh really? So the banks themselves have nothing to do with you requiring MONEY to be in your account? I didn't have a minimum balance for my free checking acccount prior to the new regulations.

After Durbin, TD Bank May Offer the Easiest Free Checking Accounts Around

[mr.nemo]

I knowa ton of people (of all socioeconic statuses) who have had to replace their birth certificates because they lost the original. know what you have to have to get a copy of your birth certificate? Photo ID! oh, you also have to have a social security card. if you have lost that it also costs money to replace. and you need ID to replace the social security card.

So how many of the people you know do not have photo ID?

And i notice you didn't comment on the fact that in addition to the ID requirement to get an ID, a person also has to provide two different items to prove residency. Is it really hard for you to imagine that a poor person may not have a lease, mortgage, utility bill, W-2, or LCTF? How do they collect welfare etc.? I am really curious. Do they not need any proof of ID, residency etc.? Also, where do they live, and do they not have electric, water etc?

[indahouweres]

So how many of the people you know do not have photo ID?



How do they collect welfare etc.? I am really curious. Do they not need any proof of ID, residency etc.? Also, where do they live, and do they not have electric, water etc?

maybe they dont' get welfare at all. where do "they" live? i'm sure that varies greatly. some live with family, some with friends, some with roommates. the bills could easily all be in the name of another resident.

you may be interested in giving this a browse, it addresses some of the questions you are asking.

http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/...file_39242.pdf

[verizon]

So how many of the people you know do not have photo ID?
Do they not need any proof of ID, residency etc.? Also, where do they live, and do they not have electric, water etc?

Your questions are thinly veiled as accusations, typical of a greenhorn.

Unless things changed in the N Philly slums since I was last there, there are many reasons why people might not have
photo id, gas, and electric or even phone. A major contributing factor is all the closed workshops, hence no jobs, hence
poor people. It's not just in N Philly either, they just are more easily id'd.

[ChrisGoldstein]

maybe they dont' get welfare at all. where do "they" live? i'm sure that varies greatly. some live with family, some with friends, some with roommates. the bills could easily all be in the name of another resident.

you may be interested in giving this a browse, it addresses some of the questions you are asking.

http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/...file_39242.pdf

Thanks for the link. I would be curious to see how many active voters do not have IDs. Surely getting a valid ID is more important than getting a free cell phone.

Your questions are thinly veiled as accusations, typical of a greenhorn.

Unless things changed in the N Philly slums since I was last there, there are many reasons why people might not have
photo id, gas, and electric or even phone. A major contributing factor is all the closed workshops, hence no jobs, hence
poor people. It's not just in N Philly either, they just are more easily id'd.

So what can be done in order to allow these folks with no birth certificate, lease papers, utility bill, tax return, w2 etc. to get a photo ID? Are they just doomed forever?

[jelena-nanana]

So how many of the people you know do not have photo ID?

I grew up poor. I have fond memories of standing in lines waiting for blocks of government cheese. So my anecdotal data is surely going to be different from yours.

To answer your question, most of the friends I had from the old neighborhood had to go through hoops around the time we all reached drivers license age. Plenty of reasons for not having their BC. Parents split up, moving, no social, can't afford to go through the hoops to get a social, no utilities, no utilities in their names, etc.

Are there any numbers? Dunno, but the skeptic in me would seriously question the authenticity of any reported number because, and again this is from my experience, when a 'surveyor' shows up in the hood to ask you a bunch of questions, you close the door in his face or pretend that you're not home.

How do they collect welfare etc.? I am really curious. Do they not need any proof of ID, residency etc.? Also, where do they live, and do they not have electric, water etc? How many people in a house do you think needs to have the ID to do all of those things? How many poor people sharing residency because they can't afford to live by themselves?

But before I waste more time with explanations, are you seriously curious or will you think that poor people are just being lazy no matter what is explained to you?

I mean, I could explain how utility theft is way more common in poor neighborhoods than you'd think, how crafty folks use the names of their dead parents/grandparents for utilities/services that were never shut off, how some like Jackie think "The Man" is after them so they won't put money in a bank or even register to vote, how some still use kerosene heaters to warm their house or just rely on the thin walls of their neighbors for heat.

Some just don't know how to navigate the system and some are the failures from our weak school system that has a terrible drop-out rate.

[Konidurase]

Thanks for the link. I would be curious to see how many active voters do not have IDs. Surely getting a valid ID is more important than getting a free cell phone.

why?

[YabbaIn]

I grew up poor. I have fond memories of standing in lines waiting for blocks of government cheese. So my anecdotal data is surely going to be different from yours.

To answer your question, most of the friends I had from the old neighborhood had to go through hoops around the time we all reached drivers license age. Plenty of reasons for not having their BC. Parents split up, moving, no social, can't afford to go through the hoops to get a social, no utilities, no utilities in their names, etc.

Are there any numbers? Dunno, but the skeptic in me would seriously question the authenticity of any reported number because, and again this is from my experience, when a 'surveyor' shows up in the hood to ask you a bunch of questions, you close the door in his face or pretend that you're not home.


How many people in a house do you think needs to have the ID to do all of those things? How many poor people sharing residency because they can't afford to live by themselves?

But before I waste more time with explanations, are you seriously curious or will you think that poor people are just being lazy no matter what is explained to you?

I mean, I could explain how utility theft is way more common in poor neighborhoods than you'd think, how crafty folks use the names of their dead parents/grandparents for utilities/services that were never shut off, how some like Jackie think "The Man" is after them so they won't put money in a bank or even register to vote, how some still use kerosene heaters to warm their house or just rely on the thin walls of their neighbors for heat.

Some just don't know how to navigate the system and some are the failures from our weak school system that has a terrible drop-out rate.

I am legitimately interested. I think the no birth certificate excuse is a legitimate excuse. While I still think when we boil it down to registered voters, with no photo ID, birth certificate, and can not afford an ID or copy of their birth certificate - I think we are talking about a pretty small group. With that said, maybe there is something that can be done to make it easier to get a copy of a birth certificate/SSN. It really shouldn't be that difficult and/or expensive.

why?

Which part of my statement?

[Immerymopay]

Where is the outcry? Clinton thinks that democrats and African Americans are too stupid to get the most basic necessity, an ID. Not only does the lack of ID make it impossible to do some of the most basic every day activities, but states even will provide the ID free of charge if needed.

How many African Americans are there though? I know two in Philly, the rest are black Americans, it doesn't say anything about them...

[trubreTab]

I am legitimately interested. I think the no birth certificate excuse is a legitimate excuse. While I still think when we boil it down to registered voters, with no photo ID, birth certificate, and can not afford an ID or copy of their birth certificate - I think we are talking about a pretty small group. With that said, maybe there is something that can be done to make it easier to get a copy of a birth certificate/SSN. It really shouldn't be that difficult and/or expensive.

I agree that it SHOULD be easier. It's ridiculously painful to go to a SS office to get a replacement card, a process that can take an entire day off from work. A luxury poor people really can't afford. Getting a copy of your BC has gotten easier, because you can go to (some) hospitals to get a cert of live birth, but again, that can become a multiple day event.

I recently had to get a copy of my SS records. A process that was basically me filling out a single form and handing it in. Took 3 hours for some strange reason and the people that work there seem to have some serious sticks-up-arses.

[simmons latex mattress]

Thanks for the link. I would be curious to see how many active voters do not have IDs. Surely getting a valid ID is more important than getting a free cell phone.



So what can be done in order to allow these folks with no birth certificate, lease papers, utility bill, tax return, w2 etc. to get a photo ID? Are they just doomed forever?

Take my word they inhabit a different world. For many just getting to Broad St is a major endeavor.

[soipguibbom]

They used to be free... you can thank Obama for that one.

Are you referring to the recent rule change whereby banks can no longer automatically sign you up for "overdraft protection" that in effect works out to a very usurious payday loan?

(The way it works is that if you make an ATM withdrawal or a check is presented that overdraws your account, the bank allows the transaction to post to your account, then charges you an overdraft fee. The overdraft fee is usually the same as a returned check fee, which at most banks is somewhere in the neighborhood of $30 to $35. The fee may as well be interest on the bank lending you its money until your paycheck is deposited. $30 per $100 is a common fee for a payday loan; that works out to an APR somewhere around 400%. given that most payday loans are repaid in two weeks or less. So unless that overdraft is huge, in effect your bank is engaging in legal usury.)

Banks were already moving to eliminate free checking accounts before that rule took effect simply because they weren't earning enough revenue from fees as it was. And the practice I describe is of very recent origin to boot; for instance, I do not recall my bank allowing overdrafts to be paid as a matter of course until after Obama took office.

You can't lay this at Obama's feet.

[Annewsded]

My bank had none of those fees or requirments prior.



[...]
I didn't have a minimum balance for my free checking acccount prior to the new regulations.

After Durbin, TD Bank May Offer the Easiest Free Checking Accounts Around

I've been banking with TD since about 2005, back when it was still Commerce Bank (of Cherry Hill, NJ; there is a larger bank based in my hometown with the same name, as well as one in Worcester, Mass., whose existence prevented TD Bank from keeping the Commerce name as it has intended to do when it bought the bank), and even back then, the bank had a $100 minimum (not average) daily balance requirement to avoid a monthly maintenance fee. And if you look at the chart in the article you linked, you will see that it does mention that fee.

So no, this was not, is not and never has been "totally free checking," and at the time I opened my account, a few large banks were offering such creatures. It is, however, awfully close to it, and certainly closer to it than most banks come now. (I liked Commerce's policy of not charging you a fee for using another bank's ATM, a customer-friendly practice the bank ended after that overdraft protection rule change, or so a TD Bank midlevel executive told me when I had a chance to complain to him about its demise.)

There is a small local bank called Hyperion Bank that still offers a totally free checking account with no minimum or average daily balance, or so its ads on SEPTA buses state. I also believe there are some credit unions that still offer them.

How difficult is it to keep $100 in the bank, you ask? If you make only a modest income and/or are not scrupulous about keeping track of your balance from day to day, harder than you might imagine. Remember, your balance goes down to $99.99 for one business day and the fee is imposed.