[frequensearules]

இந்து சாஸ்திரத்தின் படி திருமாங்கல்யம் என்பது புனிதமான ஒன்று. ஒரு பெண் கணவனை இழக்கும்போது அவள் விதவை கோலம் ஏற்க நேரிடுகிறது. திருமாங்கல்யதையும் துறக்க நேரிடுகிறது. இதன் காரணம் என்ன?

[famosetroie]

Except Garuda puraanam no other puranam says like this .In all other three yugas they can remarry and live happily; Only in kali yuga we can live only for hundred years; in other yugas you can live for 1000; 10000; 100000; years;It is the chance for the two legged animals to attain paramaatma by doing yoga praanayama and meditation from this jeevathma and also do it with sincerity with purity of mind; Pancha kacham differentiates from married man and un married man; madisar saree differentiates from married woman and un married woman; white saree differntiate from sumangali and amangali; on those days now a days all are wearing salwar cummies midis and we cannot differentiate them. Dharma sastrams says desam kaalam anusarithu oorudan koodi waall enru solkirathu.

[Zdmlscid]

thirumangalyam is an imporatant way of identifying a wmans married status.but todays ultra-modern ladies dont believe in such sentiments nor men have any decency to not lustafter married women.we are like animals now,just like dogs men when the scent is distinct in a bitchy woman.

[offemyJuccete]

The only people who wear Thirumangalyam are the women of the states of Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka and Maharashtra. In Kerala they have taken it up now.

But the vast majority of Hindus in U.P, Bihar, M.P, Gujarat, West Bengal and other states do not wear the Thiumangalyam.

The standard Hindu wedding ceremony defined by Law includes only Sapthapathi. Not Thirumangalya Dharanam.

[Ekzamenov]

sankara,

i agree with you. personally i think, thaali has more emotions thrown into it, due to the way this particular function is looked upon in our community. the ketti melam, the flowers (new thing), atchadhai (ex old thing no longer in vogue), pin thaali mudicchal, the bend headed bride, and the crouching groom, all together, a perfect emotional sauce, enough to shed tears even from the most stubborn crocodile?

infact, the joke is, that once thaali is tied, we consider the marriage complete and head towards the lunch hall, little knowing, that the essence of sapthapathi is yet to follow.

personally i do not believe in it. this i told my wife the very night and left it entirely upto her. she is a loving lady, and in this, she behaves as per the needs of the occassion.

over 30 years, she too has come to realize, that talking heads will talk nonsense, irrespective of absence of logic or reason. let them do so, but each one, to his own conscience.

[Aniplinipsync]

Respectable members,

I have a huge doubt. How do the Harijans perform their weddings? There would be no sashtry to chant Sanskrit mantrs; possibly no thavil or nadaswaram...Do they wear a 'thirumangalyam'? If they do, what is the custom they follow? Can anyone kindly answer me, please? Thank you.

Cheers!

[in4wikiu]

தாலி பொண்ணுக்கு வேலி concept. to tell the world she is married. But for few girls I think in Deva Dasi system கோவில்லே பொட்டு கட்டு வாங்க I have heard about it What it means I do not know or its significance.தாய் மகளுக்கு கட்டிய தாலி it is I suppose Jambu

[ONLINEPHARMACYCHEAPILLS]

I went to many such marriages. I mean "Reform Marriages" (Seerthirutha kalyanam). There wont e any sasthris and sasthras. But even they also tie "mangalyam". It will be like a chain and not like the one as we tie here.

In LS, the nama "KAMESA PATTHA MAANGALYA SUTHRA SOBITHA GANDHARA" is the Pramana for usage of Thali among our customs. Customs always varies from place to place and even community to community. Christians change their rings and muslims just sign in some books. In our hindu culture it has been created like that.

Pottu Kattal is also a way of marriage. But there the Gurukkal of the temple will give the thali and the girl herself or some elder ladies should tie it thinking that god is their husband.

COming to sapthapathi, when two different persons walk together for seven steps, in our sasthra, it considered them as good friends. This sapthapathi is to make the couples to good friends; whereas the mangalyam is an identification given to her as a wife.

Pranams

[vesiasmepay]

I read the replies to my original post. Thank all for the different types of views. My only doubt is this "Is it fair for a married lady to hang the thaali on the wall nails along with the Upaveetham of her husband(when he is alive of course).

If the above is right, she need not worry about losing the thali when husband dies.

[FredderiK]

In Kerala they have taken it up now.

Dear SS,

As far as I know the nairs of Kerala had an archaic practice in which a priest (probably a Namboodiri) used to perform a symbolic marriage to every girl on her attaining the marriageable age. In this ceremony the priest, it is learnt from books, used to present each girl with a "poDava" meaning one (or perhaps two) white dhotis-which was the attire even among the royalty till recently - to the girl. I had also read somewhere that this "poDavakoDa" which got shortened to "poDavaDa" as I used to hear when I was a boy - was held as some sort of a mass marriage, the priest presenting the cloth/es to all the eligible girls in the village on a selected auspicious date and time. The girls could then have a "sambandham" type of marriage. This was when the matrilineal family system was prevalent among nairs.

In due course the tying of a small golden heart-shaped piece - called "minnu" meaning twinkle (usually one or two grams) with a black thread running through the hole provided for it, around the girl's neck got added to this rite. This was called "minnukeTTu" and this word became a synonim for marriage itself and continues till this day. This custom of minnukeTTu is observed by the Christians and probably by a section of the muslims as a reminder of their old, hindu, leanings.

Vedic marriage does not envisage tirumangalyam at all. I will elaborate it in another, separate post

[Argurnenoni]

the removal of thirumangalayam on the death of the husband process as practised in some households is alone one good reason not to have thaali at all.

for the uninitiated, the newly widowed woman, is dressed like a bride, and with all the breast beating and abuse (you can imagine the words), her flowers are pulled and thrown, her sari unfurled, she given white, her thaali pulled and thrown away and above all, in not so distant past, her brother dragged her holding her hair to the waiting barber where she is shorn of all hair.

i still weep for my grand aunt, who at the age of 10 became widowed and had to undergo this abhorrent ritual, while the so called educated men stood by.

what a horrid community. no other group in tamil nadu treats their women with so much abuse. we may not shave the hair now, but the abuse remains - no invitations to sumangali prarthanai, and so many stupid functions of exclusivity.

[Alice_Medichi34]

kunjuppu

the removal of thirumangalayam on the death of the husband process as practised in some households is alone one good reason not to have thaali at all.

sir,sitting in canada and deriding our customs and traditions of india,is a disgusting attitude.try to change your life in your community,then we will know,what we are writing about.

for the uninitiated, the newly widowed woman, is dressed like a bride, and with all the breast beating and abuse (you can imagine the words), her flowers are pulled and thrown, her sari unfurled, she given white, her thaali pulled and thrown away and above all, in not so distant past, her brother dragged her holding her hair to the waiting barber where she is shorn of all hair. awww,you poor mangy thing...what a trauma you experianced...hope there are enuff psychiatrist to exorcise your pent up imagery,as in india today we are progressive lot,just as canadians have progressed from putting red-indians into a housing colony,wiping out their culture,with that of pale skins,huh!

i still weep for my grand aunt, who at the age of 10 became widowed and had to undergo this abhorrent ritual, while the so called educated men stood by. nice writer for a movie script..sob sob...how dare you sir?

what a horrid community. no other group in tamil nadu treats their women with so much abuse. we may not shave the hair now, but the abuse remains - no invitations to sumangali prarthanai, and so many stupid functions of exclusivity. good riddance to bad rubbish...we can heave a sigh of relief,tamizh nadu is bereft of your kind...thank you god...oh yeah and you did build temples for hindus in canada,right.

[fruttomma]

kunjuppu

sir,sitting in canada and deriding our customs and traditions of india,is a disgusting attitude.try to change your life in your community,then we will know,what we are writing about.



awww,you poor mangy thing...what a trauma you experianced...hope there are enuff psychiatrist to exorcise your pent up imagery,as in india today we are progressive lot,just as canadians have progressed from putting red-indians into a housing colony,wiping out their culture,with that of pale skins,huh!



nice writer for a movie script..sob sob...how dare you sir?



good riddance to bad rubbish...we can heave a sigh of relief,tamizh nadu is bereft of your kind...thank you god...oh yeah and you did build temples for hindus in canada,right.

nachi,

i would rather you comment on the practice, which have strong views on, and my post was confined to.

you are attacking me person, which i hope you would avoid.

you might want to support the practice of widow defacement, and please provide your rationale for it. this is an open forum for discussing ideas, i hope and not individual persons, on your assumptions of what i am (in canada).

you may notice, that i never post comment on persons as a rule, (always exceptions) but usually only complements. on ideas, my views are all across according to my views.

in this instance my views are clear on this practice. your post has no bearing to what i said. instead you go on about, canada etc. all of which are not true, irrelevant and quite out of tune to your many erudit comments. how come?

thank you.

[beriarele]

kunjuppu

nachi,

i would rather you comment on the practice, which have strong views on, and my post was confined to.

its your past ideas,i am confronting.not you as a person.now i dont know,if we can seperate the two?

you are attacking me person, which i hope you would avoid. hope i clarified this.

you might want to support the practice of widow defacement, and please provide your rationale for it. this is an open forum for discussing ideas, i hope and not individual persons, on your assumptions of what i am (in canada). oh no.you are a canadian.made a living there,got converted to mental thinking of canadians majority aka christanity.widows in our society are treated with respect.just becoz some rubbish happened 50 years back,is no reason for you to start reprimanding our ancestors.

you may notice, that i never post comment on persons as a rule, (always exceptions) but usually only complements. on ideas, my views are all across according to my views.

in this instance my views are clear on this practice. your post has no bearing to what i said. instead you go on about, canada etc. all of which are not true, irrelevant and quite out of tune to your many erudit comments. how come?

thank you. kunjuppu,widow is a status.she cud very well remarry.or she can live her life as she wants.today women are educated,economically independent,dont give a rats ass to a man or his custom or traditions.the game has changed now.so,this 60 years back incidents have no relevance at all in india today.

thirumangalyam,is a symbol of married life.not only acts as a protection to her ownself but also to other men,who would otherwise lust after her.

[huntbytnkbel]

nachi,

i apologize for hurting your sentiments and feelings. it was not intended, but i will take responsibility for that.

unfortunately, i think, there are pockets within our community, especially rural or even more the poor, where such practices are held even today.

you might want to read my eye witness account of a tamil brahmin widow sheared of her hair in kasi, in 2000, in one of my earliest posts. i forget which under which thread.

and people who have not witnessed, indeed are fortunate, i believe.

peace.

[maliboia]

kunjuppu

nachi,

i apologize for hurting your sentiments and feelings. it was not intended, but i will take responsibility for that.

i too apologise to you,if i have been offensive.

unfortunately, i think, there are pockets within our community, especially rural or even more the poor, where such practices are held even today. pockets in canada province,hold in contempt the very sight of colored ppl.is it fair to hold responsible the entire canadians.?

you might want to read my eye witness account of a tamil brahmin widow sheared of her hair in kasi, in 2000, in one of my earliest posts. i forget which under which thread. shearing of hair,is to make the widow look ugly physically-a protection indirectly,so that men do not lust over her now that a man is not around.its archaic but effective.i personally will not lust over 'mottai' unless a la persis khambatta .

and people who have not witnessed, indeed are fortunate, i believe.

peace. its a matter of opinion.whether it being fortunate or unfortunate.

[kathy]

....what a horrid community. no other group in tamil nadu treats their women with so much abuse....

Bravo K, this is the kind of passion we need when we see evil practiced or defended.



NN, I think you are a nice person, but have made up your mind on many issues. This is fine, I have no problem with it. But why do you get into these predictable temper tantrums regularly. This will only shut down civil exchange of ideas.

You said:
sitting in canada and deriding our customs and traditions of india,is a disgusting attitude. Disgusting is a very harsh word. Just imagine if I say your view on X or Y is disgusting how it would feel. Leaving that aside, we may live in USA or Canada, but our cultural affiliation is TB and this is the reason we linger here. So we have every right to criticize anything we see as wrong in TB community. Leaving even that, I think all of us have a right to express freely what we want, irrespective of our geographical location or affiliation. For example, a white man sitting in Timbuktu can criticize what Kim Il Jung does to Japan. In fact you have the right to say any irresponsible thing you want. But, if you do that often enough, nobody will take you seriously any more.

Next:
just as canadians have progressed from putting red-indians into a housing colony,wiping out their culture,with that of pale skins,huh! Man o man, NN, take it easy, atrocities committed by others need not stop us from being self-critical. No society is free of sins that become the burden of later generations. It is the responsibility of the educated and the affluent, to spearhead progressive changes. An example -- would anyone refuse to criticize a wife-beating brother because the next door neighbor also beats his wife?

One more:
...good riddance to bad rubbish...we can heave a sigh of relief,tamizh nadu is bereft of your kind. Is this a parody a la Steven Cobert? If not, I am really disappointed NN. K was talking about 10 year old widow and exclusion of elderly widows from certain social functions. How can you disagree with this? I will not believe your have such a stony heart.

NN, my request to you is, before you write a post opposing a view, take a few extra minutes, and then write. Also, please read it again before pressing "Submit" and remove any phrase you wouldn't like used against you.

Cheers!

[forotis]

nara,

Bravo K, this is the kind of passion we need when we see evil practiced or defended.



NN, I think you are a nice person, but have made up your mind on many issues. This is fine, I have no problem with it. But why do you get into these predictable temper tantrums regularly. This will only shut down civil exchange of ideas.

i thot kunjuppu and myself resolved our diff,and we agreed to disagree,on certain issues.i thot we have been very civil,why you middle middle come?dunno but then u r welcome mate.

You said:
Disgusting is a very harsh word. Just imagine if I say your view on X or Y is disgusting how it would feel. Leaving that aside, we may live in USA or Canada, but our cultural affiliation is TB and this is the reason we linger here. So we have every right to criticize anything we see as wrong in TB community. Leaving even that, I think all of us have a right to express freely what we want, irrespective of our geographical location or affiliation. For example, a white man sitting in Timbuktu can criticize what Kim Il Jung does to Japan. In fact you have the right to say any irresponsible thing you want. But, if you do that often enough, nobody will take you seriously any more. i too criticised the criticism.just becoz one can criticise that which happened eons back,does not mean,its happening today in India,Just imagine how Indians as a nationality will feel,when you and kunjuppu have renounced your right as an Indian.ppl like me will think,its none of your biz,as you are not one of us - period.Culturally that you are with India,is indeed a small consolation.But you can do nothing about what has already happened,but just stir the stew and make us look bad sir.

Next:
Man o man, NN, take it easy, atrocities committed by others need not stop us from being self-critical. No society is free of sins that become the burden of later generations. It is the responsibility of the educated and the affluent, to spearhead progressive changes. An example -- would anyone refuse to criticize a wife-beating brother because the next door neighbor also beats his wife? ppl beat each other on a regular basis.some do it crudely rudely some do it sophisticated way.its just a degree of variations,i think.being self critical shud be to ones own life,not pontificating to others or condescending.

One more:
Is this a parody a la Steven Cobert? If not, I am really disappointed NN. K was talking about 10 year old widow and exclusion of elderly widows from certain social functions. How can you disagree with this? I will not believe your have such a stony heart. steven is an awesome stand up comedian,we agree on this.but K talking about something,which happened years back while he lived in India,and did nothing about it then,now a rejuvenated spirit bouncing in the forum,is a bit of a suspicious act to me.

NN, my request to you is, before you write a post opposing a view, take a few extra minutes, and then write. Also, please read it again before pressing "Submit" and remove any phrase you wouldn't like used against you.

Cheers! i think we are exchanging our views.what has happened in the past,is going to remain in the past.i am sure i will not abuse widows,nor have i done it even now.to expect the world to be like how it is now,to some past incident,is by itself a moot point.i know,owing to voice delievery tone tenor is unavailable for the ear to hear,so minus one sense perception,anything written and comprehended is only ones own limited comprehension from the written statement.as for things used against me,bring it on.

for k to write,no need to wear thirumangalyam,is atrocious.this is what i criticised.is it possible for him or you for that matter,to state to your own significant other,not to wear thirumangalyam and even if you do,it's a personal practise that you wish to adopt.traditions are there for a reason.to understand the tradition as to 'why' of it is also welcomed,instead of just doing away a tradition.obviously we all know,elders stipulated this practice,by denying this tradition,its tantamount to slapping on the face of elders of India.

[VonErmad4]

.....traditions are there for a reason.to understand the tradition as to 'why' of it is also welcomed,instead of just doing away a tradition.

Okay NN, as Steven Colbert would say, I will bite, please don't make me regret it.

If I understand you right, it seems you are saying tradition must be followed because it must have had a reason and we must try to find the reasons behind the traditions instead of abandoning them, for, abandoning them tantamount to disrespecting our elders.

Please correct me if I have stated your position incorrectly.

A logical question that arises is what if you are unable to find any satisfactory answers for the a tradition that is being followed? Can we then abandon that tradition?

Or, what if the answer is unacceptable, like the one you gave about a widow with shaved head will be less attractive to men -- I find this answer abhorrent as it is male-centric and equates woman to objects of possession -- am I allowed to criticize the tradition on this count, i.e. the answer given is abhorrent, or am I required to simply accept the answers given by the dominant powers and keep quiet, or else I am disrespectful to the elders?

Once again I request you NN, please present a cogent response without such referring to my person as this or that.

Cheers!

[nabsgood]

nara,

Okay NN, as Steven Colbert would say, I will bite, please don't make me regret it.

i hope so too.as i have a limited vocabulary.

If I understand you right, it seems you are saying tradition must be followed because it must have had a reason and we must try to find the reasons behind the traditions instead of abandoning them, for, abandoning them tantamount to disrespecting our elders.

Please correct me if I have stated your position incorrectly. spot on,sir.

A logical question that arises is what if you are unable to find any satisfactory answers for the a tradition that is being followed? Can we then abandon that tradition? in such a piquant situation,either accept it on account of the basis of faith or abandon it,and face the subsequent consequence arising from thereof.

Or, what if the answer is unacceptable, like the one you gave about a widow with shaved head will be less attractive to men -- I find this answer abhorrent as it is male-centric and equates woman to objects of possession -- am I allowed to criticize the tradition on this count, i.e. the answer given is abhorrent, or am I required to simply accept the answers given by the dominant powers and keep quiet, or else I am disrespectful to the elders? had a woman posed this question,i would empathise.but you sir,is one of my species.i sense mischeiviousness.

Once again I request you NN, please present a cogent response without such referring to my person as this or that.

Cheers! you are neither this nor that.you are nara.as a side issue,years back,you held some views as dear to your heart.now for some reason,you abandoned all your previous belief's.tomorrow,is there any gurantee that you may hold yet another view,contrary to what you have now.don't we accept you,as is basis and respect you.by going to past events,if we can learn to be better humans as a race and be happy,then traditions are a soild foundation for culturally oriented.some practises may have outlived their life-cycle,which then is abandoned thru sanctions from elders in society who are authorised bonafide acahryas.by grace of god,we have a ton of them in India,and we as a nation are chugging away happily,peacefully,without converting anyone,other than the ones who already exist amongst us.we are only custodians of sruthis and smrithis,our sastras are gems handed down by our elders.we love them and respect them.